"Overbearing" Parent w/ ASD

[Bloop]

Hi. I am Assistant Scout Master for BSA and with AHG. I am also Special Education teacher. I, proudly, think I'm one of the reasons that our troop has quite a few boys with ASD and other challenges. But the best reason is that we have really awesome boys that make everyone feel welcome and included. Our newest challenge is for our leaders is that we now have a *parent* with Aspergers. Brilliant, Intense, Pushy, Long-winded, Dedicated... He has great ideas, his ability to sell them to folks is rough. His son is very bright, knowledgeable and motivated. He bridged in March and wanted to get to First Class in 6-months. I agreed with the other leaders that this was an aggressive goal, but he really is meeting and exceeding the requirements. Without required timelines, I can't find a reason to deny signing off something he's demonstrated. He however does have have a 504 for speech (stammers) and Dysgraphia (hand writing). So because his speaking is halted (give him a minute, he'll get the words out) and can barely scrawl out a sentence (but types out 60+ words a minute)... Well, everyone assumes his "overbearing" dad is pushing him through and typing up work for him. I feel that this boy isn't really being treated fairly. Yes. His dad is overbearing and even if he doesnt say a word, he's always hovering in the background when the boy would probably coast at a slower pace if not for dad. But knows his stuff. Twice as many knots as our Eagles. He knows almost every section of the book verbatim (so he doesn't stammer) but can answer any question in his own words if you give him a minute. He set up, completed and led a 4-hour Orienteering course that only one other Scout and parent attended. His completion was turned down for First Class because a leader wasn't there. There's no such rule! He *more* than demonstrated the skill and was able to show it to us. But the boy that *came* to his course was approved by a leader. Everything he does is met with intense scrutiny and bombarding him with questions and reprimanding any ASM (not just me) that signs off on anything. The assumption is that it's his dad doing and pushing everything. It seems pretty easy to get leaders on board with welcoming and accommodating a Scout whose differences make him trail behind. But give us a parent and Scout that are out-geeking and out-Scout skilling us and our own sons, and the sky falls. Thoughts? I'd like to tactfully and appropriately meet this child's uniqueness with the more subtle goals of Scouting. To get dad to back off a bit so we can feel the boy has time to enjoy the experience. For myself to not miss the point and be the "pushover sign-off Mommy." And get us to appreciate the intensity of the Dad. He really has a lot to share with us and the boys.

[Bloop]

Dude! Where's my white space? I'm sorry that's one big hard to read blob. My paragraphs were compressed together.

[packsaddle]

I've never had a problem with the return/paragraph function. Try it again with an edit. BTW, welcome to the forums!

[Hedgehog]

I've had problems with my white space disappearing - I just assumed it was because I'm using an iPhone or iPad. My first question is why are adults signing off on rank requirements? The older scouts should be signing off, not the adults (with the exception of the scout spirit and possibly POR requirements). That is part of a Troop being Boy Lead. If the boy completed the requirement, then they should get sign off. There is no requirement that a leader (or another scout) see them do it unless the requirement says to show or explain. Nobody can change the requirements from what is there. It shouldnt matter even if the dad or mom orr whomever is pushing them as long as the scout learns, knows and does what is required. My suggestion is to have the scout sit down with one of the boy leaders (or an ASM if the SM won't authorize ithe Troop's boy leaders to signs off on requirements) and show what he knows. Have them take all the time necessary but do this without the dad present (of course following YPT no 1 on 1 contact guidelines). That way you are ensuring that the scout knows or can do the requirement. If you need support for what I just said (Including the part about the boys being able to sign off) see the Guide to Advancement on page 24: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

[qwazse]

Welcome to the forums. And yeah, something about ipads and carriage returns on this site only!

 

Hedge basically nailed it.

 

Tell the boy to be patient with the adults, they're all a little thick. He'll understand. And your troops first mistake was having ASM's sign off on any requirement except the conference. It's hard to keep your pen out of the way. (I admit, I've caved sometimes as well.)

 

The hardest challenge will be getting dad to stand down. The best I can suggest, is remind him how successful his son is, and he'll have a better time if he sits back and watches.

 

With the other leaders, your line is "show me where it's written ..."

[Bloop]

Thanks to all that have responded. Our SM requires that things be signed off by ASMs or himself. We have a pocket of Scouts that are having to "relearn" skills I feel they never knew because their patrol leaders signed off. I mean *basics*. My 8-year-old know a match can't light a log, my 6-year-old scouts do too. Still, if that was a problem the time to fix it would be at a Scout Master's conference. And to give some guidance to the patrol leaders waiving them through. We do have boys teaching. And they provide great feedback on what is known and what needs work. So I'd really like to put it back in their hands. But right now while we have a whole patrol of the dad's competitive AOL Pack zooming through to First Class and leaders being snippy about it... Meh. That's more push back than is fair to those only slightly older boys. Maybe for next year. It's kinda ironic. SM and a particular ASM finding dad to be an insufferable know-it-all. Pots, meet Kettle. I mean that with admiration to them, but that part makes me laugh. Just not the boy getting caught in the middle. As for dad. Yeah. That's a work in progress. I thing he's darn near bit his lip off many times while hovering in silence.

[Tampa Turtle]

I got nothing against an on-fire boy who is blasting through his requirements BUT dad needs to back off and be directed in another direction, His son will feel more accomplished when he does it on his own. The lad needs to work with other adults

[perdidochas]

Where is writing required in T-2-1 requirements?

I've been a Boy Scout leader (Advancement chair, then ASM) for almost 5 years, and I don't recall any writing in T-2-1 Requirements, except maybe menu planning. The rest are all describe, discuss, demonstrate, etc. None say to write.

[Eagledad]

I think you know what needs to be done, your troop has to have a heart to heart talk with dad. He needs to understand that your troop works with scouts as individuals, guiding them to each set their own goals and learning how to create paths to those goals. The adults job is only to help the scouts gain the skills to create their paths. Parents have to much emotion for that to work, so it is best they step back from personally guiding their son.

 

This needs to be done in a way that the parent sees it as guidance from the group as a whole and not from just you or the SM. The problem here is that the group as a whole may not want to get involved in the drama even if they agree. But the sooner you deal with it, the easier it will be. Talk with your other adults and try to get everyone on the same page. Then two of you (you and the SM) invite dad over for a cup of coffee and a delicious cinnamon roll dripping with gooey sugar and butter.

 

Barry

[CalicoPenn]

Let me see if I understand this correctly - you have a lad cruising through the requirements to First Class but who actually knows his stuff? That sounds like a Scoutmaster's dream. You have a pushy dad who is rubbing a couple of people the wrong way. You have people making an assumption that dad is doing all the work which seems to fly in the face of all logic if the lad actually knows his stuff and has demonstrated competancy beyond compare. You have a lad that set up an orientation course that only one other Scout took advantage of who someone has decreed that the only person who gets credit for it is the lad who took the course and not set it up? This is more than a "Dad" problem - you have problems with the leaders too.

 

Yeah, maybe Dad is pushing his son - but he must be doing something right if his son is showing that kind of competancy. Normally when a parent is pushing, they aren't pushing the son, they're pushing the leaders to sign off on their sons. Of course, it also seems like everyone is assuming that Dad is pushing his son - has anyone broached that with the Dad? The Scout may have set that goal all by himself - it happens more often that people want to believe. One thing that is always repeated is to let Scouts do advancement at their own pace - this just may be the natural pace of this Scout - and someone wants to slow him up?

 

 

You might want to have a chat with Dad - broach the ubject of the goal carefully - you might find that his son set that goal all by himself because he's confident that he can master all of those skills. Are you really sure he's pushy? Sometimes people find other people who are enthusiastic and full of ideas to be pushy - expecially when those ideas takes one beyond one's comfort zone. Surely there is a way to channel that energy so the Troop gets the benefit of fresh ideas.

 

You also need to have a discussion with the leaders to find out what the real issue is - if this lad is truly showing the competancy you state here, and the drive to set up an orienteering course, why is anyone holding him back? I would think this is exactly the kind of lad you'd want to help bring up the skill levels of the other Scouts.

 

 

Someone needs to stand up and be an advocate for this boy - someone other than Dad - now, before Dad gets his hackles up (mine would have been raised the moment some "leader" said all the work my son did on the orienteering course didn't count" - and stop people from making up "rules" just because they want to play God.

[SM bob]

If the scouts knows his skills approve him. Talk to him during the campout and have him justify his fist class rank. The other ranks will be harder because he will need to show leadership and management skills. --- The dad is another issue. As everyone has stated you need to be blunt and hard with a person like this. I tell my parents that the subject of rank is between the scout and the scoutmasters (sm and asm's). When a scout is ready they will ask for the rank. If they are lacking the scout will be instructed on how to proceed. If pushed I point to the door and say there are other troops if you are unhappy.

[Hedgehog]

Thanks to all that have responded. Our SM requires that things be signed off by ASMs or himself. We have a pocket of Scouts that are having to relearn skills I feel they never knew because their patrol leaders signed off. I mean *basics*.

I think that having the adults take over the sign off process is the wrong solution. The result is that the boys who incorrectly signed off learn that if they screw up, an adult will take over. The better solution would be to ask the boy leaders whether they think the younger scouts met the requirements. If the boys agree that the younger scouts didn't meet the requirements ask how signing off on the requirements affects those younger scouts and the troop. Then ask what they think they can do to fix the problem in relation to the younger scouts not knowing what they need to know. Then ask what they can do to make sure it doesn't happen again. Doing that the boys will learn to think about consequences of their actions, to understand the value of being trustworthy, to understand servant leadership (i.e. doing right by the younger scouts) , to come up with solutions to their own problems and to take responsibility for making things right. That type of learning is more valuable for the boys than all of the skill requirements for First Class.

[Bloop]

The writing: We have a Scoutmaster's Conference form. I personally love it. The boys take time to reflect before the conference. They can then can answer questions like, "How have you done a Good Turn Daily" with specific examples. Instead of, "Um. I help people." Cumulatively they can see the progress they made from rank to rank. Most boys write it up on their own. Some full sentences, some a couple words bulleted. Even if they had a parent or sibling scribe to put thoughts to paper or just did it in their heads, it helps. This kid types up all sorts of things. He doesn't read off it or even look at it while he's doing advancement. But he sure is eager to show you. His menu was elaborate and specified how much of bulk product was used for the trip vs. his family so the patrol wouldn't have to pay for that. He deserves First Class. I think his advancement will naturally come to a much slower pace. The leadership, that peers can actually enjoy, is not there and he can't book smart it. He needs to have more social fun. He's a little me first and prone to interrupt. I've actually given the expectation to not pounce on me with his book without encouraging a peer to come for something first. As for the orienteering course. That's been taken care of, I can be pushy too :-) *I* know the other child was signed off more easily but hopefully the boy and his father don't realize it. He was happy to prove what he did in, exhausting, detail. I agree that we need to put this back in the hands of the boys. For bow they teach/approve a skill and and adult confirms it.