Alaska border patrol officer pulls handgun on scout, confiscates camera, detains group.

[packsaddle]

OK, I'm now going to put on the Ronald Reagan Halloween mask that I use to scare hell out of Unitarians...and his voice of course, "There you go again, NJ", heh, heh, talking about FACTS of all things. Why would we let something like that get in the way of some great fun?

 

Calico no new parameters, as you noted, if you pull the weapon you should be ready to fire. Based on the numerous instances of what I've observed with TSA, it makes perfect sense, lol. I completely understand. This has almost nothing to do with good sense, national security, or even border security. It might be about nothing more than showing hard at some location where almost nothing ever happens and bored, thoughtless persons need to feel important. It makes perfect sense. Chalk one up for good ol' Barney.

 

Or it might be exactly the way they were trained to respond...by the book. As if there's a difference.

 

This is, in fact, one good reason to have a smart phone. By the time they object to the video, it will already be posted on the internet.

 

Edit: Interesting: The Washington Post (that liberal rag) reports that the BP has reviewed videos of the incident and claims there is no evidence that an officer unholstered his weapon. Someone is lying. Wonder who it is?

[Peregrinator]

"There is no evidence" is not quite the same as "he didn't do it," is it? In fact the statement almost seems crafted to provide some kind of deniability.

[TAHAWK]

Says the regime:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said the picture was taken at a port of entry, which is federal property and a place where pictures are not allowed.

 

"CBP's review of this group's inspection, including video footage review, indicates that our officer did not un-holster or handle his weapon as stated in the allegation. The review revealed nothing out of the ordinary. We have reached out to the Boy Scout troop for additional information in reference to the allegation. The video footage has been referred to CBP Internal Affairs for further review."

 

And in further news:

The issue of photographing federal agents at the borders is a contentious one. The ACLU argues that agency policies banning the photography of federal agents and officers doing their jobs at border crossings are unconstitutional. In fact, the ACLU of San Diego is suing the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency over two incidents at the U.S.-Mexico border.

In one case, an environmental activist was attempting to photograph the border crossing for a Powerpoint presentation on border pollution. The other was a human rights activist documenting alleged rights abuses at the crossing. Both of them describe an aggressive response from officers as they took pictures on a public sidewalk on the American side of the border.

 

 

[packsaddle]

"There is no evidence" is not quite the same as "he didn't do it' date='" is it? In fact the statement almost seems crafted to provide some kind of deniability.[/quote']

 

 

Oops, back to the world of discomfort for you....I agree.

[RememberSchiff]

Who to believe? Which side destroyed photo(s) perhaps relevant to the allegations?

 

What if a scout states the photo he took and that was deleted by CBP was of a gun drawn at the port of entry?

 

May need an independent investigator to sort this out.

 

Who are you going to believe a Boy Scout or the Government?

 

This is getting interesting.

 

http://www.kcci.com/news/sen-grassley-reacts-to-border-incident-with-iowa-boy-scout/27125374#!bk4Cgy

 

I think Mr. Fox needs to defer questions/interviews to a skilled attorney and certainly not speak with CBP unless the interview takes place in his attorney's office. Maybe the same advice for the parents of the 15 year old scout.

[skeptic]

Once again, we have what seems to me to be two incidents. First was the apparent photo and camera confiscation. This then led to the search, and it led to the alledged gun pointing episode. So, unless they have video of both events, it is incomplete. But over reaction on the part of government agents is not uncommon. I watched it happen returning from Jambo in 2010. A scout forgot to take his knife from his pocket and store it in checked luggage. Not only did they put him through the entire routine, but they held up the entire troop that was traveling with him, and chastised the leaders loudly and publicly. For their part, I was impressed with the scouts' response to the incident, considering how overbearing the agent was.

 

At the same time, the scouts and scouters involved need to make sure they are not "embellishing" a bit in their moment of celebrity. BSA does not need more negative PR that would result from excitable stretching of the facts.

[TAHAWK]

The senior Senator from Iowa is looking into the matter.

 

New tune:

Robert Hooper, the scout executive for the Mid-Iowa Council of the BSA, told a reporter that they, too, are upset and disturbed by the allegations. 'The guys were in scout uniforms,†he said. “I would like to know what caused this to happen. It does sound pretty extreme.'

 

Not sure I'd say it quite like this:

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said they’ve had a chance to investigate – and they can’t find anything out of the ordinary.

 

CBP has denied media access to the video that it says exonerates the agent from the claim of drawing his pistol. Prelude to hard drive crash?

​

CBP has also declined to supply copy of statute that it says authorizes no photographing rule. Well, they doubtless have a pen and telephone.

 

 

 

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

As for the "new tune"; going along with what I said earlier, my guess is that when the director of field services was happy-go-luckingly saying how great a learning experience this was for the boys, he did not know about the gun-pulling part of the incident. Obviously the SE did know about that when he made his more recent comments. I also suspect that the director of field services got a talking-to about giving media interviews when you don't know all the facts, and maybe also about not smiling so much about an incident where Scouts got stopped by border guards.

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

"U.S. Customs and Border Protection staff will fly to Iowa to visit with Boy Scout leaders about an incident on the Alaskan border that’s gaining national attention."

 

Lawyer up. Tell the CBP to bring the film and we will supply the popcorn. Also inform them to leave their guns in Alaska and we will leave our pocket knives and matches home. Oh and lawyer up.

 

Even though CBP knows the names of all scouts and adults at the port of entry incident, I'm not sure scouts should attend this meeting. Seek counsel about that. I'm sure their parents will want to attend.

 

http://thegazette.com/subject/news/i...ction-20140725

[packsaddle]

I would rely on a combination of advice from both Davy Crockett and Perry Mason. Make sure you're right then go ahead...and simply tell the truth.

[TAHAWK]

Mr. Fox, the Scxouter, has posted this:

 

We stopped fifteen miles before the Canadian border. Everyone was excited about crossing back into America.

 

We approached the American border, my car was in lead, and the border guard immediately started with an attitude. We got through without much of a delay.

 

Second van pulls up to the window. A scout in the second van innocently snapped a picture of the guard and was then informed it was a $10000 fine and/or 10 years imprisonment. The camera was confiscated, the driver was told to pull up and remove all scouts and the himself from the vehicle and they were detained inside.

 

When I was made aware of this situation, I went in and was told that the vehicle would be emptied and searched. I returned to the second vehicle while it was being searched and the other boys had left their vehicles and were standing around them. The border guard informed me that it was illegal for me to watch the vehicle be searched and then he stood up and went to the vehicles to inform the scouts that the next one to leave the van would be handcuffed and detained.

 

I then returned to the border crossing and watched another guard search through well over 1000 pictures on said camera.

 

Then the officer proceeded to retrieve the scout's luggage and one of our scouts went to retrieve the bag from the roof carrier and hears a click, turns and sees the border guard pointing a loaded pistol at the scout.

 

The scout's luggage was retrieved and completely searched.

 

The border guard comes in and asks me and the scout to remain in the building and asks the other scouts to return to their vehicles. Before Eric was returned to his vehicle, he and I were questioned about our background, employment, and then questioned about why I would allow young teenage boys to carry excessive amounts of lighters, matches and knives. And then questioned my leadership and said that I should have better control of my young men. I then replied with the fact that I trusted these young men implicitly, yet the bottom line is that they're still boys.

 

The agent in charge informed me of the potential charges against said scout and informed me that it is a violation of federal law for any American to take a picture of a federal agent or any federal building.

 

This was an illegal search and intimidation of Americans returning to their home country. I believe we were targeted because all boys were In class A scout uniforms and I believe the border patrol decided at this time for them to flex their muscles. When we entered the free country of Canada, the border patrol there was engaging, friendly and excited that we were scouts entering his country, yet when we attempted to enter our own country we were searched unnecessarily and illegaly for a violation of a law that no one knew existed. When do we americans decide enough is enough? The boys were unnecessarily frightened and intimidated. The TSA and the border guards are a valuable asset to the safety of this country but to have such gesstapo tactics against a teenage scout is uncalled for. To be told that they have to be on the outlook for terrorists does not include them the freedom to harass American citizens. These scouts have been shown the ugly side of our American government. That we automatically assume that teenage boy scouts are a threat to the security and safety of this nation. I have been on many trips with scouts and every border guard TSA agent has singled out these groups of young men.

 

I'm James Fox and this statement is my opinion and only my opinion. I am a free citizen of these United States.

[Paragraphs created. Spelling as in original]

 

[NJCubScouter]

In case anyone wants to talk about it, I am the person who moved this topic from "Open Discussion" to "Issues and Politics." (There is a "redirect" in "Open Discussion" but you probably have to scroll down to find it, because it is in chronological order based on the first post, not the last one, as it probably should be.) I actually thought about moving this topic after the very first post, because it already seemed to be pointing in a "political" direction. Later posts have confirmed that, so I moved it.

[duckfoot]

DHS needs to release the video, that would answer the question of whether a gun was drawn or not. We still haven't heard a first hand account of this. Mr. Fox's posting there only gives one sentence to the gun pulling incident, you'd think there would be more but he didn't witness it.

 

 

Also, Mr. Fox invokes Godwin's Law...loses all credibility. Thread's over...go home people

[Peregrinator]

Also' date=' Mr. Fox invokes Godwin's Law...loses all credibility. Thread's over...go home people[/quote']

 

But "ausweis, bitte!" is a Gestapo tactic.

[TAHAWK]

Even assuming Fox is exagerating, hyperbole is as American (British, German, Frence, Greek) as apple pie. Its use has certainly not stopped what passes for political discourse.

 

The video may or may not show everything that happened, but CPB claims it does and that it shows no weapon was drawn. But we can't see it.