Ordeal labor used for service hours?

[jpstodwftexas]

If the Scout is already an OA Member, yes the Service Hours can Count, if he actually Works and not Just Attends.Only if he get's Scoutmaster's Approval in advance.

If the Scout is not yeat an OA Member then No they don't count since the Labor is part of the Ordeal thus required for Membership.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

No, OA service, and especially that performed as part of the Ordeal is to be "unselfish service". If service time is used for advancement it is no longer unselfish.

 

This is not a SM's opinion thing, if Ordeal service is used for rank the candidate is failing the spirit of the Ordeal, and disrespecting the customs and traditions of the Order of the Arrow.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Honestly, a scout who's hurting this bad for service time has bigger issues. Over the past four years the average number of service hours, per scout, per year, in our troop was just under 100 hours a year ... I can't imagine this is abnormal.

[sst3rd]

Old_OX,

 

Point taken on "unselfish service", but it's still the Scoutmaster's decision, as he/she may not be an OA member.

 

sst3rd

[King Ding Dong]

Honestly' date=' a scout who's hurting this bad for service time has bigger issues. Over the past four years the average number of service hours, per scout, per year, in our troop was just under 100 hours a year ... I can't imagine this is abnormal.[/quote'] Oh it is abnormal in my troop. Scouting for food and a quick trash pickup on the street were the only organized service projects and the boys (except my son) would not help the Pack with bag distribution. My troop is so diseased I do to know if it can be turned around.

[qwazse]

E92, jp, and ox,

 

With all due respect to your (actually our) lofty desires ... you need to ask yourself this simple question:

 

"Where is it written?"

 

KDD, I think it is perfectly fair to let a boy know that some Arrowmen might resent using the Ordeal for anything other than it's intended purpose, but this really is a discussion the boy should have with his SM. Encourage him to have it. Little dilemmas like these are where the tide might begin to change for your troop.

[perdidochas]

It's more that I've had it up to my rolling eyeballs with every adult who announces "It counts for service hours." to boys who rack up hours left an right. I'd rather an SM have the discretion to call it under scout spirit' date=' than have a boy watch the clock. So yeah, if he serves at camp on an O/A weekend or he cleans up at a local fireman's carnival and gets free sodas and a leftover plush toy as a result, I'd count it. I would just strongly encourage him and his patrol to look for opportunities every month or more frequently. The best service hours are the ones that don't count for anything. [/quote']

 

Watching the clock irritates me as well. At my older son't Eagle Project work day, we had one boy who came in for an hour, proclaiming that's all he needed for his next rank. Rankled me, but the other side is, I'm glad we didn't have to put up with him all day. My sons earn a lot of volunteer hours, but we don't count them after they've met the requirements.

 

[Stosh]

I kinda follow the Eagle Project idea of not being so self-serving and that service hours should be for non-BSA programs. If OA is cleaning up council camp, probably not, if they are doing a project in a state park, then it would be okay to count. Getting advancement credit for service projects is a bit self-serving in and of itself without making it worse by BSA being served.

 

It's kinda like getting paid for chores one should be doing for family anyway. However if the elderly lady next door needs her walk shoveled for the winter, I'd gladly pay my son to do it.

 

Nothing in the fine print says I have to do it one way or the other, but I'd like my boys to learn the lesson of what a service project really should be and if that be based on my personal standards, then so be it. Their parents might teach them something else and their school something even different than mine or the parents. That's a good thing to get different perspectives on what Servant Leadership means to the people being led.

 

Stosh