Min age to EARN the Eagle Rank

[mk9750]

Acco,

 

Can I phrase a small part of your post slightly differently?

 

Could it be that Sturgen, despite being techically permited to wear an Eagle badge, really isn't being an Eagle Scout?

 

I hadn't thought about this like that, but if that's what you meant, the idea has some merit.

 

Now that I'm thinking along those lines, I had an association with a Scouter in a Cub Pack that displayed very similiar traits. Never seemed to want to conform. Worked hard to raise the ire of District and Council folks. Rarely seemed to be completely honest about many things. Seemed to think that decorating his Den's uniforms with various awards, patches and recognitions was the purpose of Scouting (OK, maybe that's not what Sturgen's thinking, but the personality traits are similiar). He presented himself as an Eagle Scout, but there were plenty of things that made me question the veracity of the claim. I always held the belief that even if he earned it, he was one those few people for whom the phrase "once an Eagle, always an Eagle" doesn't apply.

 

Maybe I've met a second?

 

Mark

[scoutingagain]

I'm beginning to think nldscout might be right. In Sturgen's troop you have to wait until your 17 to get Eagle but they still have a 45 - 50 % Eagle rate?

 

Something's fishy.

 

SA

[Sturgen]

if you believe something is fishy email me the mailing address for your local council office and your troop number and i would be more than happy to mail you one of our troops yearly reports that covers the majority of our trips, the philosophy behind the troop and how and why it works, i hope you understand if i take the liberty to black out phone numbers, addresses and/or other private information of the youth

sturgen611@hotmail.com thats where you can find me, forgive me if the report is a year or two old, but we need to save the 2002-2003 for new scouts

[Laurie]

"i know who hear is moderate, who hear are bible thumpers, or more accuratly handbook thumpers, i have a pretty good idea who has gone through woodbadge robot production and who is simply there for the boys...in closing i have found that this page is dominated by handbook thumpers it seems and it perhaps would be a great resource if i want to know what regulation C217-B8-2D is, but i can call the council office for that, as a source for unique opinions on what policy ought to be there seems to be little if any use to post on hear unless perhaps you can ban BobW, OGE and FOG, not saying that you should just that the three simply quote regs, im sure all are highly involved in the adult leader robot program"

 

Wow, so a person who relies on the handbooks and the program as it is, who is willing to deliver the program the boys signed up for--that person is NOT in it for the boys? What you have described is cheating the boys. To try to find someone who agrees will not make it any less so. To be proud of leadership that is inconsistent with what the BSA promises to deliver and to which the leaders pledge to deliver is to show contempt for the BSA and the boys hoping to advance within the program. It is shameful. The thoughts and ideas are not; the blatant practice of what is known to be against BSA policy is. What I THINK the minimum age for Eagle should be is this: when a boy has met the requirements, fairly and thoroughly, that is when I think he should earn it. To hold a boy back is wrong when he has met the requirements, and quite frankly I can see no reason to do so. To hold a boy back for incomplete requirements is appropriate. To have a boy denied Eagle--or any rank for that matter--is a disgrace if the troop has held him back and used other methods that violate BSA policy. My apologies to all if this response sounds unkind, but quite frankly, the practices mentioned here anger me.

[NeilLup]

Hello ScouterPaul,

 

molscouter is on the track of the way I was thinking but let's take it a bit further.

 

I know a person who completed the 5th grade at age 8. That would have made him eligible to join Boy Scouts and, with the sixteen months you mentioned, would have had over 2 years to earn the Eagle and still be 10.

 

Or to take it a step further, this person finished the third grade at age 7 and skipped the fourth grade. Arguably, that means that he could have begun work on his Arrow of Light at age 7, completed it early in age 8 (six months after "finishing" grade 4) and, technically, earned his Eagle at age 9.

 

Likely? no. Good idea? I certainly don't think so. But, with a Pack and Troop which run badge mills and parents who would want their son to be a trained seal and in the Guinness Book of World Records, possible.

 

Another scenario and one which is becoming more common, involves homeschooled youth. The parents "certify" them as completing the fifth grade at age 8 or 7. Policing this is very tricky as who is to tell a parent that their child has not done what they say?

 

So these things aren't likely and I don't know of any cases where it has been pushed to such a ludicrous extreme (although I do understand that the envelope has been pushed pretty far in some cases.) But they are, at least in theory, possible.

[Bob White]

"the philosophy behind the troop and how and why it works"

 

I have no need for the names and numbers of the troop . But, I would dearly like to see the philosophy behind the troop and why it works, in a summarized form.

 

Bob White

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NJCubScouter]

Neil: If I understand your post correctly, these 9 and 10 year old Eagles are theoretical possibilities based on boys who actually finished grades at school at young ages; but they did not actually make Eagle at those ages, right?

 

I have posted about this before, the idea of boys crossing over just past their tenth birthday, or age 9 or even earlier, because they were considered to be 1, 2 or even 3 grades higher in school than they would "normally" be. I think the BSA should consider closing this "loophole." I have written about a situation I know of in which a boy was "old enough" to join a troop several months after his tenth birthday because his parents were home schooling him and by their clock, he had finished the fifth grade, even though in any public school district in the state, he would have been finishing fourth grade. This is not nearly so egregious a case as the ones Neil cites, because this boy I know(who now seems to have settled down a bit though I still see him clinging to his ASM-father at meetings now and then) was not so egregious a case because he actually only "missed" by a month or two. But I do think that if a literal reading of the joining requirements would permit a boy to join a troop before some point, at the very earliest his tenth birthday, whether by "completing fifth grade" or earning Arrow of Light (which at that point would also have to be grade-level based), the BSA (whether it be the unit or the council, I'm not focusing on the details), really has to look at how it is that the boy has achieved that grade level at that age and whether the boy is really ready to be a Boy Scout.

 

I just don't think a parent should have the ability, through a home-schooling or other special situation, to manipulate the joining requirements, and if that sounds harsh, as I said before I have seen it done to a minor degree, which means it could be done to a greater degree. And even if a boy has moved that fast through a regular school system, by being "gifted" and skipping grades, the unit or council or whoever needs to consider the "socialization" aspect. (My state doesn't really "skip" kids much anymore, different districts can provide accelerated classes or "un-graded" settings but the official grade stays the same.) This hypothetical 8-year-old Boy Scout may be in the sixth grade and know all the math, English, social studies of his older peers, but he most likely still acts like an 8 year old. Exceptions could be made, but I think consideration should be given to tightening up the general rule.

 

Whoa, when I get on a roll... As I said, this has become an "issue" with me; as in what the kids say now, "that guy has issues..."

 

And I don't want to start a debate about home schooling, that's not the issue.

[NeilLup]

NJCubScouter

 

You are correct. Those are theoretical. As I mentioned, the youngest Eagle of which I have personal knowledge earned the award at 12 years, 2 months.

[NJCubScouter]

I just realized that this thread started out talking about a troop where you can't make Eagle until you are 17, and now is talking about the possibility of a boy making Eagle at 9! Someone before mentioned the Twilight Zone... I can hear the music...

[Fat Old Guy]

Oh for the good old days when you couldn't join Boy Scouts before your 11th birtday.

[Sturgen]

Wait, so fat old guy is disagreeing with BSA policy, this is a great day in history. Would this be admitting that not every national policy is correct?

[Fat Old Guy]

Oh fish boy, get the name right. It is Fat Old Guy, please note the inital capitals.

 

You know, you still have me in stitches. Ask one of your parents to do a search and read my postings to you. You'll see that I disagree with many BSA policies such as FCFY, NSP, no beatings, etc.. However, I abide by their policies. Well, most of them . . . I don't wear official BSA pants and I make my own square neckerchiefs.

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

I'm reminded of a quote by Bernard Bailey:

 

"When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it."

 

Perhaps this would be an appropriate place to make reference to the Eagle Scout Challenge:

 

Eagle Scout Challenge

The foremost responsibility of an Eagle Scout is to live with honor. To an Eagle Scout, honor is the foundation of all character. He knows that "A Scout is trustworthy" is the very first point of the Scout Law for a good reason. An Eagle Scout lives honorably, not only because honor is important to him but because of the vital significance of the example he sets for other Scouts. Living honorably reflects credit on his home, his church, his troop, and his community. May the white of the Eagle badge remind you to always live with honor.

 

The second obligation of an Eagle Scout is loyalty. A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation. His loyalty to his troop and brother Scouts makes him pitch in and carry his share of the load. All of these help to build the loyalty which means devotion to community, to country, to one's own ideals, and to God. Let the blue of the Eagle badge always inspire your loyalty.

 

The third obligation of an Eagle Scout is to be courageous. Courage has always been a quality by which men measure themselves and others. To a Scout, bravery means not only the courage to face physical danger, but the determination to stand up for the right. Trusting in God, with faith in his fellowman, he looks forward to each day, seeking his share of the world's work to do. Let the red of the Eagle badge remind you always of courage.

 

The fourth obligation of an Eagle Scout is to be cheerful. To remind the Eagle Scout to always wear a smile, the red, white, and blue ribbon is attached to the scroll of the Second Class Scout award, which has its ends turned up in a smile.

 

The final responsibility of an Eagle Scout is service. The Eagle Scout extends a helping hand to those who still toil up Scouting's trail, just as others helped him in his climb to the Eagle. The performance of the daily Good Turn takes on a new meaning when he enters a more adult life of continuing service to others. The Eagle stands as protector of the weak and helpless. He aids and comforts the unfortunate and the oppressed. He upholds the rights of others while defending his own. He will always "Be Prepared" to put forth his best.

 

You deserve much credit for having achieved Scouting's highest award. But wear your award with humility, ever mindful that the Eagle Scout is looked up to as an example. May the Scout Oath and the Scout Law be your guide for tomorrow and onward.

 

BSA No. 58-900, This is distributed with Eagle Award packets

 

KS

[acco40]

Amen brother. Amen.

[Fat Old Guy]

Is he Beetle's brother?