Venture Crews at summer camp

[ScoutNut]

However' date=' this attitude is absolutely disgusting. While I may agree with you about keeping boys and girls separated for various reason, to suggest that these girls are tramps because of how they dress is vulgar at best. Boys can't control themselves, so we should cover the girls up? Are you kidding me? Alcoholics can't control themselves, so should we reinstate prohibition? We SHOULD be teaching our boys respect, and self discipline. Giving boys a pass to act like rude, nasty little people because they can't possibly control themselves with all those hormones raging? Give me a break. [/quote']

 

I totally agree.

 

The first thing that came to my mind was - so, since the girls dressed like "tramps", and deserved to be treated like "tramps", then if one of the hormonal boys got carried away it would be all the girls fault?

 

That kind of thinking is why rape victims are so reluctant to come forward..

 

Stop making it everyone elses fault! Teach your "hormonal" youth to respect PEOPLE - no matter WHAT they are wearing.

 

Good grief - you all let a teachable moment turn into something VERY UGLY! But, you sure taught those boys how to treat girls/women didn't you.

 

[Basementdweller]

So in an hour a week and 40 hours once a month, I am supposed to undo what is currently socially norms/acceptable behaviors. Turn on the TV or facebook and look at acceptable behavior.

 

 

Your a bit out of touch sir.

[Basementdweller]

Scoutnut,

 

Ask the parents and boys who got sent home for meeting the girls after lights out on Tuesday night.

 

So why werent the girls sent home?

[walk in the woods]

Scoutnut,

 

Ask the parents and boys who got sent home for meeting the girls after lights out on Tuesday night.

 

So why werent the girls sent home?

 

Because being a boy is politically incorrect, or at least puts you automatically on the wrong side of PC today.

[King Ding Dong]

BD I am a little confused about the timeline here. On Monday the Crew was called into the office by I assume the Camp Director then on Tuesday night there were some assignations? Neutral territory or the crews campsite? Does seem outrageous only the boys were punished. Sent home for out past lights out seems a bit extreme especially considering these women are at least 14. I know your troop is the "wrong" color, these women didn't happen to be the "right" color ?

[ScoutNut]

So in an hour a week and 40 hours once a month, I am supposed to undo what is currently socially norms/acceptable behaviors. Turn on the TV or facebook and look at acceptable behavior.

 

 

Your a bit out of touch sir.

 

No, I am NOT "out of touch". I have one son, and one daughter, and if either acted out of line they heard about it from me. My son would never treat a girl "like a tramp". No matter what she was wearing. He knows better.

 

No one is telling you to "undo" what they are, obviously, taught at home.

 

What I AM saying is that, as a Scout Leader, you are a ROLE MODEL. You should be a GOOD one. The mission of the BSA and it's Scout Leaders, is to "prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes".

 

Bad behavior is bad behavior. Just because the kids (and obviously you) accept it as the "norm" does not make it right. The only way to help these kids learn that it is NOT right is to make it CLEAR to them that their ROLE MODEL (whom one hopes they have at least a teeny tiny bit of respect for) does NOT think it is acceptable behavior.

 

Telling your Scouts, or even implicating that you agree with the notion, that because the girls are wearing short shorts they are "tramps", and deserve to be treated with disrespect, is unscoutlike at the least, and extremely offensive.

 

And - to be clear - I do NOT think that short shorts, and skimpy tops, are appropriate attire for camping - anywhere.

 

I also think that ALL participants in the after hour meet-ups should have been sent home.

 

BOTH the girls AND the boys - and the adults - all shared equally in the blame for what happened.

[qwazse]

Here's another "culture clash" entirely of national's own making that folks fail to recognize: older youth keep later hours. The BSA has countered that by training boys since age 11 to respect taps and lights out. But they have not been doing the same for girls, many of whom have become conditioned to treat every campout as a slumber party. Guess how much the G2SS or leader specific training discusses this? Zippo.

[SM bob]

Summer camps want and need to pull in more people to stay open. I believe venture crews will bring in youth that would not otherwise go to camp. If that means that girls will be there so be it. The older scouts might be more inclined to want to go to camp again. The structure of summer camp is what teenagers need. If your troop plans to achieve the most out of summer camp they will be pushed mentally and physically beyond their comfort level. My scouts pass out every night at camp by 10pm. They could not be sneaking around because they would pass out on the way out of the campsite. The venture crew at your camp made a mistake about their wardrobe choices. They were spoken to and the problem will probably not happen again. Lesson learned. If scouts were sneaking around after hours they were not livings by the scout law and oath. It seems that the venture crew and a few scouts made mistakes, and were disciplined. Saying that camps should ban the venture crews seems overly reactionary.

[King Ding Dong]

BD Never said what these scouts were actually doing but this just seems like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

[qwazse]

Summer camps want and need to pull in more people ... If that means that girls will be there so be it. The older scouts might be more inclined to want to go to camp again. ...

 

I know you mean well, but let me say here what I've said to other adult (volunteers and pros):

The girls in my crew are not honey, and your boys are not flies.

We give our troop free reign to decide when they want to invite the crew on camping weekends. Guess how many weekends a year that amounts to? Maybe one. Guess how many summer camps that amounts to? Zero. That's right. Our older boys have the option of picking a co-ed high adventure week on the other side of the lake from where they always camp, and instead they choose the run-of-the-mill all-boy campsite.

 

Venturing is the fastest-shrinking program of the BSA. The behavior this crew demonstrated is not going to motivate any of the SM's attending camp that week to want a crew in their CO. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are looking at camp next year and calling the CD's asking point-blank if any crews will be in camp. It will take young men and women of great character (and modest dress) to change their opinion, and those seem to be in rare supply.

[David CO]

I've lived much of my life in a beach resort town. The boys in my unit have all seen girls in swimsuits before.

[David CO]

When Lenae says, "We should be teaching our boys..., " I wonder who she means by "we." Does she mean Scout Leaders? Male Scout Leaders?

 

Before Youth Protection, it was not uncommon for respected male leaders to have a man-to-man chat with boys about respecting women. I don't do that anymore. I don't want to go there. Maybe Lenae and the other moms could talk to the boys, but I don't know that it would have the same effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lenae]

When Lenae says' date=' "We should be teaching our boys..., " I wonder who she means by "we." Does she mean Scout Leaders? Male Scout Leaders? Before Youth Protection, it was not uncommon for respected male leaders to have a man-to-man chat with boys about respecting women. I don't do that anymore. I don't want to go there. Maybe Lenae and the other moms could talk to the boys, but I don't know that it would have the same effect. [/quote'] When I say "we" I mean we. All of us. Parents, scout leaders of both genders, teachers, church leaders, everyone.

[David CO]

No problem with parents talking to their kids. Schools, churches and BSA have rules.

[qwazse]

I've lived much of my life in a beach resort town. The boys in my unit have all seen girls in swimsuits before.

I think you'll find yourself needing to corral about one in 10 of your boys if those "beach girls" were spending the week at camp in the heartland. You would appreciate it if those girls wore something that communicated "I'm here for scouting." Alternatively, you would appreciate it if the boys had done their scouting all along in a co-ed environment where everyone learned boundaries from an early age.