Hawkwin Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 6/25/2014 at 5:51 PM, Stosh said: Zombie Apocalyptic Survivalists - Just tossed that one in, but I'd bet it would sell in today's culture. Our OA did that a year or two ago for a Camporee. I would also add, Jedi or Minecraft anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 IMHO the debate on "should it be a sensitive topic" is separate. It's too late. There are groups waiting to pick fights. OA members (new and old) already cringe thinking "is this in bad taste?" "Will I be accused of being a bigot?" I think it's best if OA drops the Indian mystic. It can offend people and it is a sensitive topic. Plus scouts are elected because of their example. Inserting them into a different folklore is a distraction. IMHO, it's best to stick to be heart of the idea. We serve. We help others. We share fellowship. The rest is a distraction. Sadly, I do think ceremony is important. I do think tradition is important. Sadly, I also think we damage our understanding the past as we separate ourselves more and more from using the past. But so be it. That's modern day politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, fred johnson said: IMHO the debate on "should it be a sensitive topic" is separate. It's too late. There are groups waiting to pick fights. OA members (new and old) already cringe thinking "is this in bad taste?" "Will I be accused of being a bigot?" I think it's best if OA drops the Indian mystic. It can offend people and it is a sensitive topic. Plus scouts are elected because of their example. Inserting them into a different folklore is a distraction. IMHO, it's best to stick to be heart of the idea. We serve. We help others. We share fellowship. The rest is a distraction. Sadly, I do think ceremony is important. I do think tradition is important. Sadly, I also think we damage our understanding the past as we separate ourselves more and more from using the past. But so be it. That's modern day politics. I agree that there ceremony and mystic is important. I also think tradition is important, and I agree modern politics is making holding on to this tradition difficult. But I don't understand why we should give up without a fight. It's not like we are lampooning native culture; we are honoring it. Many lodges painstakingly research and make their regalia to match their local indigenous cultures. It's not like we have a "redskin" on a helmet or anything. I also consider it no different than any other "dress up" activity such as re-enacting. At some point we have to draw a line and call-out those being overly politically correct as being ridiculous. It's not cultural appropriation, it is honoring a culture. I know you know all this...I am just venting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (Once again) our Lodge ceremonies has the approval (and over-view) of representatives of the Seminole tribe. Are they authentic? I grew up near a Seminole reservation and I think kinda. Boring too. I have seen some lodge patches and dance attire that is more of the "Chief Knock-a-Homa" variety and it is a bit cringeworthy. I think National OA should start making Lodges adopt some sort of accuracy and communication with tribes. Some OA members are really into it but I think it is an aging minority...I just think if they are gonna do it do it right. I also think OA has bigger identity issues to deal with. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tampa Turtle said: I also think OA has bigger identity issues to deal with. Absolutely. Like "Why OA?" ... It should be about more than elections and ceremonies. Edited January 19, 2018 by fred johnson 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Cheerful Service. Dang that has convicted me on more than one occasion to smile and lend a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 11:22 AM, Col. Flagg said: It's not like we are lampooning native culture; Aren't we? When we make up fake characters and legends, aren't we lampooning the culture? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelpfulTracks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, David CO said: Aren't we? When we make up fake characters and legends, aren't we lampooning the culture? Was James Fenimore Cooper lampooning when he made up the characters and legends in Last of the Mohicans? Edited January 21, 2018 by HelpfulTracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 18 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said: Was James Fenimore Cooper lampooning when he made up the characters and legends in Last of the Mohicans? I knew James Fenimore Cooper. Jim Cooper was a friend of mine. You guys in OA are no Jim Cooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle1993 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I went over and read a lot of forums on powwows.com. There are several threads about OA and Boy Scouts imitation of Indian culture. There are mixed opinions depending on poster. Some are against any non NA group depicting NA culture. Others defend OA and Boy Scouts who show honest interest in learning about Indian culture and working on accurately working on dance and regalia. One hot button issue appears to be ... pan Indian presentations. There is no single Indian culture... there are tribes. So, if you want to do this correctly you should wear the regalia of the tribe accurately and the dance only those tribe dances. Wearing, drumming and dancing generic Indian representations is akin to painting on blackface and putting on a Minstrel show. Definitely a mix of opinion, but that appears to be a red line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Okay, first of all, everyone ... vocabulary It's a mystique (fascinating aura about someone or something). If you have that, don't give it up. If any of you have a mystic in your lodge, refer him to the monastery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 It is a common spelling mystique. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisos Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, David CO said: I knew James Fenimore Cooper. Jim Cooper was a friend of mine. You guys in OA are no Jim Cooper. Lloyd Bentsen is smiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 7 hours ago, David CO said: I knew James Fenimore Cooper. Jim Cooper was a friend of mine. You guys in OA are no Jim Cooper. Ad hominem, answer the question or not as you wish, but let's stop with the cheap shots shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David CO Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) I thought he was joking, so I responded with a joke. I thought everyone would recognize it as a joke. My mistake. Since you have taken offense at my joke, I invite a moderator to delete the post. I found it hard to believe that anyone would seriously consider the OA stories and activities to be some sort of performance art that should be compared to classic works of literature. Edited January 22, 2018 by David CO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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