Eagle and weed

[David CO]

If the CO were a school, this would be very serious. 0 tolerance.

[King Ding Dong]

If the CO were a school' date=' this would be very serious. 0 tolerance.[/quote'] If this Scout was caught with a knife, especially a sheath knife, I could understand.

[MattR]

He has a little over a year before he turns 18. He still has a few merit badges to do, so I was wrong on that. He now has a summons. I've been digging and it's a mess. I don't think he's been doing this for long. He seems to have some new "friends" and doesn't do much outside of scouts.

 

I'm not distressed so much as collecting ideas. I'm certainly not going to yell at anyone. I don't see a difference between any illegal substance, and since he's a minor it's all illegal. I don't trust him and until I do he won't go camping with the troop. I would like for him to earn back my trust but it's up to him. I want to do this because correcting one's own wrong is a lot harder than helping someone else. This is an opportunity for a good lesson. Since he has a summons someone else can be the bad cop and hopefully he'll listen to me.

 

It seems he has to make a choice between the Scout Oath and Law, and what his friends tell him.

[TAHAWK]

Old_OX_Eagle83 ... I understand where you are coming from, but I have a different view. Scouting and being a scout is about character development. Eagle Scout is about completing requirements.

 

If the kid did the work and met the requirements, I'd be fine with him getting Eagle ... after everything is resolved from the incident. I'm not so sure I'd want him to stand in front of the troop for an Eagle ceremony. But that's always a family choice. . . .

 

2. Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your daily life.

 

So he clearly did not meet the requirements. He was not trustworthy, kind [to the Scout he was trying to lead astray], obedient [to camp rules, federal law, and apparently state law], or clean.

 

As we hope for foregiveness, he should be given a chance, time permitting, to show that he appreciates that he violated the Scout Law and Oath - and criminal law, and mends his ways. If time does not permit, he has a life lesson.

 

sheath knife

A joke, yes?

[Stosh]

"Everything in life happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is because you're stupid and make bad choices."

 

Okay, who's going to toss the first stone here?

 

While not as severe as this situation, I have had boys screw up big time while earning their Eagle and this is what I have always done. Take away all POR from the boy. He is now "just a member of a patrol." He's got 1 year to prove to me and to himself he has the leadership ability and character traits to be an Eagle. I then ignore him, but keep one eye on him at all times.

 

There are only two outcomes to this situation. 1) the boy will quit and maybe join another troop that will take him without the above mentioned requirement or 2) he will prove himself worthy.

 

So, how does it work? Well, let's just say I have had two boys fall into this situation in my career. Both chose #2 and strangely enough I wear their 2 Eagle mentor pins on my uniform collar.

 

Stosh

[King Ding Dong]

Most teenage boys a going to screw up big time more than once, sometimes they get caught sometimes not. To those who would just throw away to key on this boy you are making the strongest argument I have ever heard for 13 year old Eagles. If you want it better get it as fast as you can because once you get it they can't take it away and there are a whole lot of people out there who will do all sorts of things to prevent you from from getting it if you do not meet their expectations. You are likely to screw up a few times along the way and are going to need plenty of buffer time in case they descend upon you.

[King Ding Dong]

Tahawk, a joke yes. Schools get really cranky about knives, probably more so than drugs. Had to pull in a ll the "sheath" knife zero tolerance threads threads as well. We spend an awful lot of time teaching the responsible use of knives, many other cultures spend a lot of effort teaching the responsible use of drugs and alcohol. All we do is "just say no"

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

This thread is a perfect example of the problem attitude that has developed with Eagle Scout.

 

Eagle Scout is a possible attainment for our best and brightest, those who should be on a pedestal, a shining example, and a spokesperson for BSA.

 

Not every scout should get Eagle, not every scout has what it takes. Eagle is not a completion of Scouting, it isn't a graduation, it isn't resume filler. This award is cheapened when we begin to think "everyone should win" and "they all deserve it"; sorry it just isn't so.

 

This kid screwed up major, and we should be concerned about how to get him help ... not finding a way to give him a rare honor, he in no way deserves.

 

We're talking about a minor who not only is comfortable breaking the law, and encouraging other youth to follow his steps, but also clearly has criminal contacts ... drug dealers he has relations with, and a fund source likely unknown to this family, that is possibly criminal as well. Are we really talking about finessing the rules, so this deserving young man can get Eagle ... really?

Are you kidding me?

 

Lets talk about getting law enforcement to investigate, determine where the illegal drugs came from, and shut down the pipeline. If that source is his family, lets get child protective services on this. Lets get this young man in a rehab and rehabilitation program, and hopefully get this youth clean and sober, and put him back on the straight and narrow. I support doing all of these things; but no scouter worthy of putting on the uniform would be thinking about this young man's advancement at this time, much less trying to find a way to "beat the system" and get him Eagle Scout.

 

Put on the uniform, follow the rules and guidelines of BSA, show scout spirit by living by the Oath and Law, set the correct example - rewarding those who follow your example, and not those who don't ... or take off the uniform, and find something else to do with your time. I'm a member of BSA, a registered leader, a coach, mentor, and guide of youth in this program; BSA is very clear on what needs to happen here. BTW, has the SE been notified of this event, as required?

[packsaddle]

"This kid screwed up major, and we should be concerned about how to get him help ... not finding a way to give him a rare honor, he in no way deserves."

I agree. Eagle is irrelevant at this point. If he turns things around it might become relevant in the future but right now his LIFE is on the line. Some badge or rank is unimportant in comparison.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Thank you Pack, finally someone who is looking at what's important here. I bleed Red and Green, like the rest of you, but a reality check is needed here. This young man needs help, and not with a merit badge.

[David CO]

King Ding Dong, I got the joke. My school allows for the responsible use of knives in Science, Art, and Shop classes, the cafeteria, and Scout activities. Not so cranky, IMHO, certainly not more so than with drugs.

 

We have zero tolerance for recreation drug use in any of our school sponsored activities, on or off campus.

 

I must agree with Eagle 83 on this one. In addition to the other consequences mentioned, legal and advancement, expulsion from school would be a very real possibility if the CO were a school.

[SM bob]

I would pull his POR, have a talk with him and his parents, and maybe require him to help out at the local NA meetings. I would even make him teach about the dangers of drugs to the troop. You have probably know this kid for a few years. He might have hit a low point. His parents, you, and the troop can help him comeback from this. I would wait to decide on his Eagle rank. As others have said, he has to prove that can live by the scout law.

[fred johnson]

Old_OX_Eagle83 ... I agree this thread is a perfect example of the problem with the attitude toward Eagle Scout. Too many people infer too much on Eagle. It's rightly respected and very well hyped, but it is only a rank. You do the requirements and earn the rank. Too many people think it's more than that. It is scouting that teaches character and it's being a scout that we should honor. Eagle just means requirements were completed. If the kid completes the requirements, he's earned Eagle. People who talk about "the award is cheapened" are way off base and are protecting the award instead of protecting the scout.

 

As for the rest.... This scenario is way way too common to call it a major screw up or to question the scout's moral character. Pot is so common and so many kids have it that there will not be a police investigation or anything like that. The police would find nothing more than what you found when you investigated. Your scout had it and provided it to his fellow scouts. That is bad, very bad, but that does not make him a drug dealer.

 

So what will happen is that the scout is going to face some immediate challenges. The court will scare him and give him an intervention program that usually works. Odds are this is the first time he's had pot and it is a crime of ease, convenience and peer and societal pressure.

 

-----------------------------------

 

As for finessing the rules.... From what I understand, he has a few merit badges left. If he completes those merit badges, there is little to stop him from submitting an application to be recognized as an Eagle Scout directly to the district and request a disputed Eagle BOR. His troop doesn't even need to be involved. As long as the court issues are resolved and he can demonstrate the requirements are complete, BSA will award Eagle. The only thing that can stop that is the scout not knowing his rights and his troop's adult leaders not telling him about his rights.

 

This exact scenario has occurred many times. We can be all self-righteous and try to deny him his accomplishments, but then we are not following the Scout Law ourselves because we have to hide information from the scout to get our way. IMHO, that's way more shameful than the mistake the scout made.

 

Our duty is to protect all our scouts (thus membership issue) and to support our scouts (that's why you tell him about his rights as a scout and the procedures he can use). Anything else and we're not doing our job as good leaders.

[King Ding Dong]

King Ding Dong' date=' I got the joke. My school allows for the responsible use of knives in Science, Art, and Shop classes, the cafeteria, and Scout activities. Not so cranky, IMHO, certainly not more so than with drugs. We have zero tolerance for recreation drug use in any of our school sponsored activities, on or off campus. I must agree with Eagle 83 on this one. In addition to the other consequences mentioned, legal and advancement, expulsion from school would be a very real possibility if the CO were a school.[/quote'] If one was to go to every US high school and give every student a Whiz Quiz and expel everyone with a positive result the Zombie Apocalypse would result. I really find the US approach to drug issues deplorable. If you are wealthy, a politician or otherwise famous and are caught with drugs, especially if they are in tablet form (Rush anyone?) it is considered a mental health issue with a rehab stint at a beach or mountain resort the norm. If you are poor or middle class it is a criminal issue and lockem up and throw away the key.

[Basementdweller]

So what if this happened in Colorado or Washington where it is not illegal?

 

While MJ is a gateway drug there are many function weed abusers, just like functional alcoholics, in our society.

 

 

Not sure why there is any debate

 

Scouting is the least of this young mans issues. or is it an issue at all? What does mom and dad say? Are they casual users as well?

 

As pointed out the police are not going to do anything to a kid with a couple of joints, even if he was sharing it.

 

 

 

So Matt, you need to figure out where YOU stand on the issue.

 

I would do everything in my power to make it as difficult as possible for the young man to receive his Eagle. Depending on the discussion with the parents I would ask the committee to support me in either suspending your revoking his membership in the troop.

 

 

If you don't stand for something, then sooner or later you realize you stand for nothing.