Boy Scouts march in Utah Gay Pride Parade

[King Ding Dong]

The standard being put forth here seems to be "controversial". What kinds of parades are considered non-controversial and scouts can participate in?

[packsaddle]

Fred, if you don't see the irony I don't know how to make it clear for you. The 'idea' of his dislike/outrage/whatever is not illuminated by more and more and more photos. It is impossible to take such obvious baiting seriously. To this I will add that I agree with what Sentinel wrote. In fact, this thread probably shouldn't have been started at all. The solution to this non-issue is obvious and has been stated for those who can't see the obvious: local option.

It is just fine for local families and units to make their own decision and then it is just fine for others to tsk, tsk about it. But it is a waste of time to open a thread like this and then think it is a serious discussion from which solutions will come to light or that minds will change. In that respect, the local option of personal opinion already rules. It just isn't apparent to some of us.

[fred johnson]

packsaddle ...

... In that respect' date=' the local option of personal opinion already rules. It just isn't apparent to some of us. [/quote']

 

 

I fully agree for "local option" for units. Let them choose their membership. 100% for that. It has always been strange to me that BSA would ask churches and public groups to support scouting with space and dollars when BSA doesn't support the teachings of the church or group.

 

But once scouters take on a controversy in a public venue, you are way beyond a "local choice". You become a public figure "using scouting for a purpose outside of scouting." ... 100% okay to use scouting for the purpose of scouting (to help our sons grow in character, citizenship and physical fitness). ... 100% not okay to use scouting for a political agenda. Marching in a politically controversial parade is using scouting for something outside of scouting's purpose.

 

Let society resolve the issue over the coming years. Just don't use our youth as pawns in this political battle. If you do, then you don't deserve to be a scouter.

 

....

 

The only irony here is the really good but cheap humor you'd find on the Daily Show. It is common to mock or embarrass to devalue another person's arguments. It is much much harder to address the argument itself. The pictures are part of the argument and fairly representational of what you would see. No wonder why the parades draw such large attendance.

[NJCubScouter]

Fred, I agree. Let's forget about the parades and just have local option.

[Fehler]

Scouts have been around a while. Civil rights marches used to be controversial (and dangerous). Is there a history of scout groups marching in civil rights parades?

[Scouter99]

Problem is' date=' S, scouts in our communities are being asked to participate in pride events. Having a thread where things are hashed out helps us to be prepared to address folks who won't like our decision. (Because, no matter what's decided, someone is going to approach us about it.)[/quote']

 

The decision has already been made, it's not your decision. "...nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda..." http://www.scouting.org/MembershipStandards/Resolution/Resolution.aspx

[King Ding Dong]

The decision has already been made' date=' it's not your decision. "...nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda..." http://www.scouting.org/MembershipStandards/Resolution/Resolution.aspx[/quote'] So no Earth Day events or parades. Clearly St. Patricks day is out. Veterans issues are certainly political and social and we know they have agendas. Thanksgiving certainly has a social agenda. The start of the calendar year is certainly a social and controversial matter. The new Sustainability MB is certainly controversial, just ask the coal rollers. There no issue that is not controversial or has a political agenda that I can think of. Except puppies and kittens.

[Scouter99]

Be dumb if you want, KDD.

[King Ding Dong]

Why the edit 99? I am sure everyone here wants to hear what you really think and how you follow the Scout Law.

[Scouter99]

Why the edit 99? I am sure everyone here wants to hear what you really think and how you follow the Scout Law.

 

I said that based on your posts about drugs for all I know you were stoned when you were dumb posting. But then I figured that was a low blow and you're generally just a funny guy, so I edited like a nice scout, but if you want it you've got it.

 

(I love the "Scout Law" kindergarten comments sometimes, I'm tickled that a guy who thinks drug use on scout trips is no big deal speaking in a thread where people are advocating scouts marching beside half-naked BDSM fetishists wants to try to call me out on scout anything)

[CalicoPenn]

Except puppies and kittens.

 

Apparently you're unaware of the controversy over the Puppy Bowl versus the Kitten Bowl.

 

 

[King Ding Dong]

I said that based on your posts about drugs for all I know you were stoned when you were dumb posting. But then I figured that was a low blow and you're generally just a funny guy' date=' so I edited like a nice scout, but if you want it you've got it. (I love the "Scout Law" kindergarten comments sometimes, I'm tickled that a guy who thinks drug use on scout trips is no big deal speaking in a thread where people are advocating scouts marching beside half-naked BDSM fetishists wants to try to call me out on scout anything)[/quote'] Please provide evidence I said "no big deal". I think you have me confused with someone else.

[Sentinel947]

To whom it may concern:

 

After watching this thread a little longer, I'm going to have to say a few more words.

 

From this moment on, any insults or ad hominem attacks will be removed. Un-Scoutlike language will also be removed. If after my cleaning of your post, you believe it was unjustified, I'd be happy to talk to you over Private Message about it.(Provided that PM's work.) I will leave my name on the edit notes. I don't want to, but if I have to I will close the thread.

 

This is not aimed at anybody specifically. Both the progressive and conservative sides here have done this, and I have decided that it's out of control. Ultimately this website is an extension of our own Troops or Roundtable. What is unacceptable in terms of behavior or language there is inappropriate here. We wouldn't let our Scouts act this way, so we should be held to that same standard.

 

Having no children, I have no side to take on Scouts Marching in Pride Parades. I have no agenda to push, and I'm not on anybody's side.

 

While we might disagree with each others opinions and beliefs here, the rules of the game here are being courteous and kind.

I admire everybody's passion for the topics, but it gets carried too far. The anonymous nature of the internet is not a licence to say whatever you want. For too long on this website, it has been. That ends now.

 

Questions? Comments? Concerns? Private Message me.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Sentinel947

[NJCubScouter]

Just a note to AZMike and Merlyn and anyone who was interested in their most recent exchange regarding "where do you draw the line": In light of the issues with this thread as identified by several people, and most recently and comprehensively, Sentinel947, I decided to make a bold move and split the thread. (Especially bold considering that based on recent experience using the moderator's tools, there was a chance that the posts would end up in oblivion or in some other forum elsewhere on the Internet. But, despite the fact that I got an error message while moving the posts, it appears to have worked.) The discussion between AZMike and Merlyn was on a perfectly reasonable topic (it's one that has been discussed here approximately 1,000 times, but still reasonable and relevant) and the two of them have been sticking to the issues and not personalities, which of course everyone will continue to do in the NEW thread, called "Where do you draw the line?" I am writing this because it might seem a little confusing when people see that AZMike created a new thread this afternoon that has posts from yesterday. Of course, AZMike did not start the thread at all, it is just patched together from his and Merlyn's posts; AZMike is listed as the thread creator because his post happens to be the first one there. Everyone (not just AZMike and Merlyn of course) may feel free to continue that discussion there. And just to make clear, no posts were harmed in this process, they were just moved to a new thread.

 

(Update: Hmmm, now the new thread has backdated itself and shows that it was created yesterday at the same time the first post in it was created. Maybe we don't give the forum software enough credit sometimes; in this case it seems to have actually changed its mind.)