Boy Scouts march in Utah Gay Pride Parade

[King Ding Dong]

Fifty Shades of Grey is one of the most popular book series with women. So are furry handcuffs. Fairly mainstream these days.

[NJCubScouter]

How about a male in a swimsuit sprawling on the ground so he can be spanked by passersby? I think that was the issue under discussion.

Under discussion by who? Who has mentioned spanking in this thread, other than you?

[Peregrinator]

Fifty Shades of Grey is one of the most popular book series with women. So are furry handcuffs. Fairly mainstream these days.

 

Therefore, it is OK to expose adolescents to it. Right?

[King Ding Dong]

If it is not illegal seems to be a parental rights issue to me.

[fred johnson]

This particular dead-horse thread topic started by complaints that the (current and former perhaps) Scouts and Scouters and uniform were in violation of our rules due to taking part in a political event. This led to some humorous exchanges where a flag ceremony at a political party national convention is NOT political' date=' but being the lead off marchers and color guard at a Pride parade IS political.[/quote']

 

Horizon you are not discussing this with intellectual honesty. You want something different. Fine, but be honest as we promise in the scout law. BSA national has agreed that it's okay to do the flag ceremony at certain events. The "pride" parades have been repeatedly denied by BSA leadership as as place to have scouts represented. The parades are #1 controversial, #2 contradicting BSA policy, #3 not a picture to associate with BSA and #4 often containing materials way more mature than we want our younger scouts to see.

 

Plus, as a parent, I'd be fine with my sons attending either the Republican or Democrat conventions, but I'd keep them away from a "Pride" parade because it's way to mature for them. Same as I don't want my sons attending an R rated movie or getting into the finer discussions on comparative sex acts. It is not a topic they are ready for yet.

[NJCubScouter]

So keep your Scouts out of the "pride" parades. Is this a big issue in your troop? Nobody in my troop has ever suggested participation in such a parade. It's just not something that comes up. I doubt it ever will.

[Horizon]

Fred - I have never asked BSA for permission to march in a parade. We have just marched. The BSA's rules on political events are published, and clear enough. Nothing in those rules would automatically exclude a color guard at a Pride event, or the Million Man March, or the NRA national convention, or a Cinco de Mayo event run by the local MECHA chapter. As long as the boys are not used for politics, but just to serve as a color guard - it appears to be fine.

 

AZMike - YOU posted the photos on page 4. I never searched for them, they just appeared here on a site dedicated to Scouting. I even answered your charge, mentioning that that type of salacious display is not my first choice for wholesome family entertainment. Interestingly enough, many in the gay and lesbian community don't like that side either. It is best captured in this long-ago bit from the Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gaypride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays,351/

 

 

[packsaddle]

We've never asked permission either. Then again, we've never had a 'pride' parade other than pride in the school or the mascot or something. Gays just mix in as if they're regular members of society...Imagine that....outrageous! LOL It's almost as if it isn't unnatural.

Wanna see something shocking? Watch the frat guys. You just never know how their creative minds will entertain us.

Horizon, like I've written before, some of us are obsessed with sex. I guess AZMike thought it was appropriate to expose the scouts who follow these forums to those photos. Go figure...seems ironic to me.

[Sentinel947]

At the risk of being accused of Administrative Censorship, I'd like to throw my two cents into the wind here.

 

After six pages of rehashing the same points and trying to catch the opposing side in "gotcha" statements, What is going to be accomplished with this thread? I think it is about time that this thread dies a noble, natural death. (Which is hypocritical of me posting, and prolonging the thread.)

 

There are more personal attacks here then I could possibly censor if I had either the time or desire to. I respect every bodies passion for culture war issues, but I don't think they are going to be resolved here on Scouter.com.

 

I'll let everybody continue the thread if they want, and I'll continue to go back to observing the Issues and Politics forum.

 

Everybody have a wonderful morning (or evening on the West Coast).

 

Sentinel947

[qwazse]

Problem is, S, scouts in our communities are being asked to participate in pride events. Having a thread where things are hashed out helps us to be prepared to address folks who won't like our decision. (Because, no matter what's decided, someone is going to approach us about it.)

[fred johnson]

Fred - I have never asked BSA for permission to march in a parade. We have just marched. The BSA's rules on political events are published' date=' and clear enough. Nothing in those rules would automatically exclude a color guard at a Pride event, or the Million Man March, or the NRA national convention, or a Cinco de Mayo event run by the local MECHA chapter. As long as the boys are not used for politics, but just to serve as a color guard - it appears to be fine.[/quote']

 

Horizon ... But in this case they were directed not to March. And they knew that marching politicized the scouts. And that the boys were being exposed to many of the most mature topics when at that age relationships are often understood in Disney innocence.

 

 

... Horizon' date=' like I've written before, some of us are obsessed with sex. I guess AZMike thought it was appropriate to expose the scouts who follow these forums to those photos. Go figure...seems ironic to me.[/quote']

 

Packsaddle ... Cheap shot. Unworthy of a scouter. AZMike's pictures add to the discussion in that they correct the continual inference that this is okay for scouts to see and participate in.

[CalicoPenn]

Problem is' date=' S, scouts in our communities are being asked to participate in pride events.[/quote']

 

I think perheaps we need some clarification as to who is doing the asking. I very much doubt that pride parade committees are suddenly reaching out to Scout Troops to ask them to participate in the pride parade. The Chicago Pride Parade is one of the largest parades in the world (both in terms of spectators and in terms of units marching) - I don't see them out begging the Scouts to participate. I doubt they would turn a contingent of Scouts down if they wanted to march, but they aren't going out of their way to get Scouts to march.

 

I've never heard of a Scout Troop asking permission to take place in a flag ceremony before - when I think about it, that's kind of surprising given the BSA's propensity for requiring a form for everything. I suspect that a major political party is going to reach out to the local council to find a unit for their convention but I don't know of any VFW's or American Legions having to reach out to anyone but the local Scout leader to find someone to be color guard for a local event.

 

Having grown up in Chicago and having taken part in Chicago pride parades (AZMike - it never occurred to you to wonder how I could know so much about the Chicago Pride Parade before you accused me of being homophobic? Man, I got to tell you, I laughed for an hour after that doozy) I tend to forget that they're still "controversial" in some of the more backward parts of this country. I'm no prude but I'm disgusted by things I see at the pride parade (mostly the pandering by the politicians) but them I'm disgusted by things I see at non-pride parades and don't think children should be exposed to them (again, politicians - but also people driving flying carpet go karts wearing fezes, men wearing bermuda shorts and black stockings pushing lawn mowers around and kazoo bands). I woudn't keep my Scouts from participating in those whack-a-doodle parades but, like every outing, there would be a parental permission slip to sign - I'd use the same slip for a pride parade as I would for a suburban 4th of July parade.

 

No matter what, though - it all still boils down to the same solution - local choice - don't want your Scouts participating in a pride parade? Then don't participate - but why should you care of the Troop down the block decides to participate? Do you think you should have any say at all in the activities it does?

 

 

[fred johnson]

No matter what' date=' though - it all still boils down to the same solution - local choice - don't want your Scouts participating in a pride parade? Then don't participate - but why should you care of the Troop down the block decides to participate? Do you think you should have any say at all in the activities it does?[/quote']

 

... I'm all for membership local choice. But as for marching in a parade, it represents scouting. Marching in a pride parade is still controversial. When we march, it should be non-controversial and to the betterment of scout recruitment. Marching in a pride parade is controversial and in no way serves to help overall membership. If anything, it costs BSA members every time scouts are seen in a pride parade.

[JoeBob]

"Drill Ass - Not Gas"

"Gays Say No F*cking Way"

 

Quotes from the signs carried in the Pride Parade, post #56. (But they didn't use the ampersand.)

 

I can't see how anyone thinks that association with that language and/or sentiment can benefit our boys.

 

[fred johnson]

JoeBob ... I agree. Sort of like the scout parents that had a five hour drive to camp with their Tiger Cubs. They stopped for dinner at a Hooters restaurant. They figured the kids wouldn't know the difference at that age.

 

Scouting is supposed to have an innocense and non-partisianship. I see this the same as a New Orleans Mardi Gras parade or a parade with women on trampolines. Just add a big controversy in addition to the stepping on societal limits.