Would you switch membership to the Girl Scouts?

[GeorgiaMom]

GA Mom' date=' you and other parents who don't want the FOS presentation at your B & G should let the pack leadership know. There is no rule that it must occur then. Suggest another time, most are done at award nights because that's when there are the most parents in the room feeling good about all that scouting has done with their kiddos[/quote']

 

Thanks. I may do that. The last Blue & Gold was downright painful, for the kids, the families, the leaders, and especially the speaker. Last year, when I was on the leadership committee, we were told by our Council rep that we must invite the FOS, et al, to the Blue & Gold. I didn't know it was optional.

 

GA Mom

[RememberSchiff]

Ask your Council Rep to show you that in writing, not for re-charter or Journey to Excellence. You may find that FOS is optional altogether. Not saying that FOS is bad, just that it is not required.

[packsaddle]

KDD, "Science is like that." Indeed.

GAMom, "Then, I can choose to involve my kids in a CO where I know most of the leaders and kids well and I'm comfortable with the example they set for my child."

Which is practically the way it works anyway. I agree. Why not just admit what is obviously the practice anyway and formalize local option?

 

As for the FOS thing at Blue and Gold, that is a vacant threat that you can ignore. They are not going to pull the plug on a unit for something like failing to invite them. When I was CM we were told the same thing and after one particularly egregious presentation by the DE, in which families left scouting as a result, I simply did not notify anyone outside of the unit of our B&G. The DE, in particular, was not invited and I would have done whatever it took not to have that guy inflict himself on the families again.

 

And as if I need to repeat my feelings about parasites (which is what most administrators are), if the host wants to rid itself of the parasitic effect, one way is to starve the parasite.

[IM_Kathy]

having had a child in both, been leader in girl scouts, and still a leader in boy scouts.... would I switch to GSUSA - nope!

 

 

I will credit both programs for benefiting my kids and helped them become the great young adults they are. But I don't think it was solely because of scouts - it just helped.

 

GSUSA has way too many flaws. They change levels without having to even earn anything. Yes cubs is the same way in that boys move up just don't receive that levels badge, but it's a lot different. There's no everyone that gets this rank has completed a,b,c in GSUSA.

 

Personally I don't care at all about sexual orientation, religious affiliation, and all that stuff. I'm looking for best program to teach a child outdoor skills, citizenship, and exploration into career paths. For what we had in our area that was BSA for my son and GSUSA for my daughter with me being a leader and exposing those girls to camping. Yes there were girl scout troops in our unit that never camped except for the individual girls that went to summer camp (they don't do summer camp as a troop)

 

I'm not a scout leader to teach a child what I think are family and spiritual beliefs - the only thing I teach in scouting is that being reverent is not only practicing your own beliefs but accepting others. And accepting others doesn't mean I have to agree, it just means I let them be.

 

Anyway... if both BSA and GSUSA would've been co-ed when my kids started they would've both ended up in BSA program.

[howarthe]

If the GSUSA accepted boys, then they would stop being a valuable place for girls. There is a lot of research in place to confirm that girls (and women) do their best when the boys (and men) are somewhere else, so no, if the GSUSA became coed, then I would not enroll my son. I might even withdraw my daughter.

 

The GSUSA is firmly committed to inclusivity, so no there has never (to my knowledge) been a restriction for lesbians, gays, bisexuals or transgendered youth or adults. I am not aware of any historical restriction for atheists. There is certainly no such restriction at present, so the Girl Scouts would not need to announce a change in these matters. Once upon a time, Girls Scout troops were segregated by race, but they integrated troops long before the Boy Scouts of America or the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Martin Luther King, Jr. referred to them as a positive force toward integration in America, and he was a Boy Scout!

 

Male adult leaders are already allowed to participate in all GSUSA activities; although, what passes for "appropriate" youth safety precautions seem a little strict to me; however, the statistics on this are harsh. Men are twice as likely to abuse children as women, so the reason GSUSA has fewer lawsuits against it in these matters might simply be because it has fewer men in leadership. Sad.

 

I would love to see the GSUSA recommit itself to its outdoor program. It has not gone away, but it is optional, and I think that is a mistake. GSUSA is primarily committed to providing girls with leadership training. Boy Scouts is big on leadership, too. I think that one of the most effective ways to teach girls leadership skills is to take them outdoors and prove to them that they can excel at "boy-stuff:" camping, hiking, shooting, fishing, etc, etc, etc. See link below.

 

Instead, the GSUSA seems committed to what they call the take action project (TAP). There are projects similar to the Eagle Scout project in which the girls try to make a difference in their community. They are unlink the Eagle Scout project in that they are much smaller and come up about twice each year. I don't like them because they really get me out of my comfort zone trying to help my daughter fulfill them. One year she organized a bike train to school, that was awesome. Another year she was suppose to make recommendations to a building manager on how she could improve energy efficiency. That was uncomfortable. Another year her troop made coloring books for a preschool. These were all great projects. My daughter learned a lot, but only one of them was outdoors.

 

I have concerns with the BSA and GSUSA. I do not believe either organization listens to my concerns in any meaningful way; however, both organizations are locally lead by volunteers (me), so I am able to lead my unit the way I see fit. I see no sense in getting all worked up

about how other people want to run their unit. I think that some of them are doing it wrong, but so what?

 

[GeorgiaMom]

If the GSUSA accepted boys, then they would stop being a valuable place for girls. There is a lot of research in place to confirm that girls (and women) do their best when the boys (and men) are somewhere else...

 

 

I definitely get what you're saying about girls often being crowded out by more aggressive boys in activities. I've seen it in my daughter's co-ed gifted class at school when a very aggressive boy took over a group project from daughter and her female friend. There is plenty of evidence to show that most girls do better in classes and hands-on activities if the boys are elsewhere.

 

However, I also see this with my high functioning autistic son, who is very gentle and unassertive. He also had a male work partner run roughshod over him in an after school robotics program because the other boy is an undisciplined snot who completely took over the project. I had to tell the teacher that I was not paying for my son to sit and watch the other kid do all the robot building. If they were too cheap to give each child their own materials, and insisted they work in pairs, then I expected them to make sure my son had a 50% opportunity to learn.

 

All that to say, it's not just girls vs. boys, it's team players vs. non team players. I've seen girls behave in exclusionary ways toward other girls as well.

 

I get what you're saying, but I question the long term wisdom of addressing this very real problem by splitting up the genders. What happens in high school? What happens in college? What happens in the workplace? How will these girls who have grown accustomed to single gender classes and activities assert themselves when they do arrive in a co-ed environment?

 

I help with the in school and after school science programs. I'm a big advocate for my daughter's encouragement to participate in any field she chooses. She wanted to help me with a kitchen remodel the other day, and she said "Mommy, I'm good at engineering! I can help!". I was never prouder. Both kids did a great job helping me put the cabinets together.

 

I do try to teach both of my kids to assert themselves, and also be considerate of others. I try to teach them to work as a team, and I am frustrated with prima donnas of both genders who have to be in charge of everything. It is especially obnoxious when the prima donna's parents encourage the behavior by telling me how special their "snowflake" is.

 

A friend of mine keeps posting on FB about what a "genius" her son is (same kid in my son's robotics class above). She's so nice that I can't bring myself to tell her that her son is indeed very intelligent, but he is also an insufferable snot that my kids don't want to be around because he is downright nasty. I won't even babysit him anymore.

 

While I see your point, I think there is more long term benefit to the boys and the girls if we do put them in co-ed programs at an early age, and make it an expectation that they particpate and share appropriately. They're never too young to learn to work as a team.

 

Ga Mom

[packsaddle]

GAMom, Please convey this to your daughter: I teach a course in which I have a broad mix of majors, all just starting out in college. At the beginning I ask them to identify their majors and it's usually a fairly even mix of sciences, engineering, and various so-called 'liberal arts' majors like history, sociology, psychology, etc. I admit that I'm just a little mean to them at first (like to trim the class size to something manageable) so I ask them what the essential question is for their field, using no more than 3 -5 words. The scientists struggle but eventually get it. The engineers get it right away. The others stumble around in a random walk of aimless thoughts. Then the mean part: I ask them what how they will greet each other if they actually complete their degree and find a career in their field. They struggle with that too so I provide the answer. To the engineers I say, "you will greet the scientists with "hello professor", the others with "hello teacher". And then I tell all the others that they will address the engineers with....................

"Hello, Boss".

It's the simple pleasures that are the best.

[Rick_in_CA]

If the GSUSA accepted boys' date=' then they would stop being a valuable place for girls. There is a lot of research in place to confirm that girls (and women) do their best when the boys (and men) are somewhere else, so no, if the GSUSA became coed, then I would not enroll my son. I might even withdraw my daughter.[/quote']

 

Almost all those studies are looking at the classroom, not scouting or the like, and a lot of those studies have been discredited. The latest research shows no advantage to single-sex classrooms: http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/02/single-sex-education.aspx.