Consequences of ad-hoc Patrol un-Method. ".

[MattR]

 

Tenderfoot Requirement #9 - Buddy system.

What I meant: One, of the two, should be a PL or APL.

[Eagle92]

Different troops do different things.

 

I've seen some where the SPL does eat with the Scouters

 

I've seen some where the SPL, as well as the adults attending, are invited by the patrols to eat with them.

 

I've seen some where the SPL eats with the Venture Patrol, Leadership Corps in my day. And depending upon the activity, may do the Venture patrol activity.

 

And I've seen one instance where the SPL and ASPL did their own, utensiless cooking over the camp out.

[Stosh]

What I meant: One, of the two, should be a PL or APL.

 

My initial thought was, why in the world would a patrol decide on going someplace most of the people in the patrol didn't want to go to????

 

I would think that if four out of 6 patrol members didn't want to go, the PL would take care of his one or two patrol members that did want to go by going to the other patrols and requesting an invite for them. If one does this often enough those stragglers will eventually join up with the new patrol leaving the original, basically leader-less patrol, to flounder on its own.

 

I do believe a lot of this problem stems from the control exerted by either the adults and/or PLC. The Committee/SM/PLC puts Spring Camporee on the calendar and dictates to everyone they have to attend. Well, the older boys don't want to do that, they would prefer to do something else that weekend. So the mixed age patrols all have the older boys take a pass leaving partial patrols of young boys to fend for themselves. It's hard to miss the voting with the feet process that occurs all over the place, not just scouting.

 

After 40 years of scouting, I've had enough Camporees, but at my age, I would rather tackle yet another whitewater river, or trip to the BWCA, or hiking Isle Royale, but another Camporee? I will make the effort because I'm the SM and I will support my boys, but I can't speak for the others.

 

Okay, let's do the math, 7 years of Boy scouts, 1 fall, 1 winter and 1 spring camporee/klondike outing. That means by the time a boy gets his driver's license, he's had 15 camporees under his belt and another 6 to go. Oh, but it's the girls, cars and jobs? I don't buy that excuse for one minute.

 

Stosh

[scoutergipper]

I agree, and it's not just Camporees or other District/Council events. I suspect Scouts feel this way about going to even the greatest, most interesting campground year after year after year. Mixing it up and having new adventures is a key component to keeping older boys in Scouting.

[MattR]

My initial thought was, why in the world would a patrol decide on going someplace most of the people in the patrol didn't want to go to????

 

Oh, but it's the girls, cars and jobs? I don't buy that excuse for one minute.

That's a different thread. I'd say closer to soccer, band, and robotics, They don't decide where they go. The other activities decide. A lot of kids are over scheduled and more activities are longer and now require 100% participation. 5 years ago it wasn't nearly this bad in my town.

[Stosh]

That's a different thread. I'd say closer to soccer, band, and robotics, They don't decide where they go. The other activities decide. A lot of kids are over scheduled and more activities are longer and now require 100% participation. 5 years ago it wasn't nearly this bad in my town.

 

I don't know if this is a different thread or a symptom of the problem described.

 

Patrols are having a difficult time coming up with people showing up. Well, if the patrols were really deciding on what they wanted to do, working around difficult schedules, and making it happen as a group, attendance would take care of itself. Instead, patrols are being dictated to was to when, where and how often they are expected to be someplace with no input on their part. Then they are unfairly judged as to their percentage of attendance for advancement and subjected to a ton of adult inflicted difficulties.

 

Why do we have ad hoc patrols in the first place unless there are a bunch of scouts loosing interest, can't make it, frustrated and burning out because of the lack of patrol-method planning on the part of the patrols.

 

Tell the boys that they need to plan a monthly patrol activity and then let them have at it. They will NOT plan activities where the majority of them can't make it and they won't necessarily plan an activity on an adult dictated timeline.

 

Summer Camp for the 6th year, i.e. boys 16+. They decide to go to a non-council camp the first week in July and do their high adventure program only. But the SM says that isn't going to work out, no adult leaders capable of doing high adventure can take that week off. Instead they will need to sign up for the week with the NSP which is the third week of July when some of the adults can cover. This leaves the SM standing around scratching his head, blaming girls, jobs, and cars for the fact that the 16+ year old boys in his troop refuse to go to summer camp this summer! So they take the one boy 16+ who is willing to make the change, and give him TG babysitting for the NSP for the week.

 

OMG, where do I sign up to get a piece of that action!!

 

Stosh

 

A few years back I attended a summer camp and in the site near us was a "troop" of 6-7 boys and a couple of adults. Before the week was out I visited with them. The two adults spent the week hanging out at the mess hall drinking coffee and fishing in the local stream nearby. The boys either hiked, ate at the dining hall or hung out around the campfire. They participated in no camp activities, didn't take any merit badges and basically just "screwed around" for the week.

 

After a couple of days watching them, I went over and visited. They were all Eagle Scouts, they had been there, done that and this was their week to hang out and do nothing for a week away from home. They got to camp, fish, hike, canoe and do whatever they felt like doing and no one would bother them. The only reason the two adults were along was because the camp mandated it. But the two adults were fully aware that they were on their own for the week, too. They caught some great mountain trout and had some really nice meals in camp on the days they didn't like the menu at the mess hall.

 

I hope that all my boys get a chance at a week of summer camp like this!

 

Stosh

[TAHAWK]

Imagine that. Scouts at camp having fun with their friends. Such a problem. ^___^

 

When I was a "Ute," two merit badges at Summer Camp was regarded as "normal" - badges you could hardly get anywhere else. After all 2/week x 52 weeks = 104/year. That left plenty of time for hiking and trying to better the record on the camp obstacle course.

 

Now some get eight MBs, turning Summer Camp into a Merit Badge School. Yeech !

[King Ding Dong]

Update: we had a meeting of the minds last night and the SPL came with a proposal for two patrols. No one objected at least vocally. The SM and ASM saw the need for a more long term solution and actually having standards for the PORs. The down side one of them was asking me about the MBC application procedure as he thinks it would be a great idea for his wife to be one for all three Citizens. Granted she is an educator and well qualified but all three from the same MBC, disappointing. A work in progress.

[scoutergipper]

Technically, there's nothing wrong with one person who can counsel all three citizenship merit badges. As a Scoutmaster, however, I'd never assign the same person to do all three with the same Scout. In fact, I've obtained our District MB Counselor list, and have started to recommend adults outside our Troop to the Scouts.

 

Our Committee - when meeting in Boards of Review - officially frowns on one Adult dominating any Scout's Merit Badge or Advancement work. You might remind your SM that it is a violation of the Methods for a Scout to not have numerous and diverse "adult associations."

[TAHAWK]

. . . You might remind your SM that it is a violation of the Methods for a Scout to not have numerous and diverse "adult associations."

 

While it soulds like a good rule of thumb, I am having trouble finding this rule in BSA literature. Can you help please?

[boomerscout]

 

I am having trouble finding this rule in BSA literature. Can you help please?

I did find this: "Neither does the National Council place a limit on the

number of merit badges a youth may earn from one

counselor. However, in situations where a Scout is

earning a large number of badges from just one

counselor, the unit leader is permitted to place a limit on

the number of merit badges that may be earned from one

counselor, as long as the same limit applies to all Scouts

in the unit. Approved counselors may work with and pass

any member, including their own son, ward, or relative.

Nevertheless, we often teach young people the

importance of broadening horizons. Scouts meeting with

counselors beyond their families and beyond even their

own units are doing that. They will beneﬠt from the perspectives of many “teachers†and will learn more as a

result. They should be encouraged to reach out."

 

Guide to Advancement 2013