le Voyageur Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 No, it's not unique. Scientologists also describe themselves as a religion but do not believe in God. Laveyan Satanists would describe themselves the same way. - AZMike Mike, if I may - I'll have to disagree as you're comparing an established religion with over 350 million followers, one that is older then Christianity with a UFO cult that has a membership of less then 60 000! Other then Tom Cruise, can you cite anything of merit that Scientology has contributed on the world state? Pack - sorry, I've always been a rule breaker. Maybe I should report to the Hokey Pokey Center and turn myself around, hey.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Le V: Now THERE is a statement of faith: :" Ya put yer WHOLE self in....."That's what it's all about". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Have to agree with AZMike. About Le V and comparing the historical Jesus with Buddhism. Even Jesus taught in the Temple, and I seem to remember him quoted as saying he was here more to correct Judaism than to replace it. Do we need the biblical references? After all, Jesus was not a Christian! That term came waaaay later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 le Voyager suggested a self-imposed penalty and I am intrigued but SSScout just made a comparison of religion to the hokey pokey. I guess I did ask for some help with a sense of humor and I really appreciate it, guys. OTOH, this might also be a violation of #3. This is getting complicated. And as much as I would like to overlook another comment, I can't....the comment about Scientology. I'm still smarting over the spanking Beavah gave me for using the 'M' word. So even though there may not be a single Scientologist in all of scouting (and I have no idea, really) you can't make disparaging comments like that in this thread. There are other threads in this forum where you can probably get away with it. And remember, the hokey pokey isn't the worst that can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 Hey guys, everyone gets their toes stepped on in this. Just let it go. It's about selfless. ​SSScout, there's a joke among Jews: If there are two rabbis in a room then there will be at least three opinions. But, joking aside, the lack of clergy reminds me of a quote (Gandhi)I saw: "Prayer is not asking. It is a longing of the soul. It is daily admission of one's weakness. It is better in prayer to have a heart without words than words without a heart." Le Voyageur, I was trying to learn about Buddhist prayer and read that some Buddhists don't like the idea of prayer. This kind of brings up a knot with respect to an invocation. Please tell me if I'm wrong but it sounded like prayer as inspiration is fine but prayer for gain of any other type - winning the lottery for example - is just way out of bounds. I ask because that's exactly what my rabbi told me a few years ago. But that begs the next question, what's the difference between prayer and inspiring words? I could take the prayers that AZMike found (on page 1), remove the reference to "please bow your head" and "Lord of the Universe" and end up with great inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
le Voyageur Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Well Pack.... I gotta bail out from this thread. It's allowed me to to ponder one of the Council's summer camp programs that needed an infusion of new thought in my own obtuse way, and now I've got to get it on paper... more then likely it'll be another program that National will "steal". Well, keep the kiddies in line, and en roulant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Mike, if I may - I'll have to disagree as you're comparing an established religion with over 350 million followers, one that is older then Christianity with a UFO cult that has a membership of less then 60 000! Other then Tom Cruise, can you cite anything of merit that Scientology has contributed on the world state? Pack - sorry, I've always been a rule breaker. Maybe I should report to the Hokey Pokey Center and turn myself around, hey.... No comparison was intended between the relative merits of Buddhism and L. Ron Hubbard's group. I'm not speaking up for them (or the Satanists, for that matter), just pointing out that other practices that self-identify as religiions don't believe in God, or as many Buddhists do, don't consider the issue relevant. The issue I raised was not whether Scientology has merit. I have great respect for those who follow the Eight-Fold Path, which is rigorous. I can't agree that Jesus borrowed anything from Buddhism, or that his teachings were not rooted in Judaism, and most serious scholars would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 le Voyager suggested a self-imposed penalty and I am intrigued but SSScout just made a comparison of religion to the hokey pokey. I guess I did ask for some help with a sense of humor and I really appreciate it, guys. OTOH, this might also be a violation of #3. This is getting complicated. And as much as I would like to overlook another comment, I can't....the comment about Scientology. I'm still smarting over the spanking Beavah gave me for using the 'M' word. So even though there may not be a single Scientologist in all of scouting (and I have no idea, really) you can't make disparaging comments like that in this thread. There are other threads in this forum where you can probably get away with it. And remember, the hokey pokey isn't the worst that can happen. What did I say that was disparaging about Scientology, packsaddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 It wasn't you. It was le Voyageur and it's possible that I turned up the 'sensitivity' too much on that one but he seemed to diminish that particular faith on the basis of the small number of followers, called it a UFO cult, and worst of all, associated it with Tom Cruise. Edit: le Voyageur, hope you'll be back. I very much appreciate anything you can add on Buddhism. I like what I've read so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 It wasn't you. It was le Voyageur and it's possible that I turned up the 'sensitivity' too much on that one but he seemed to diminish that particular faith on the basis of the small number of followers, called it a UFO cult, and worst of all, associated it with Tom Cruise. Edit: le Voyageur, hope you'll be back. I very much appreciate anything you can add on Buddhism. I like what I've read so far. And in the interest of fairness, I should say that I was apparently mistaken on whether Scientologists believe in God. I based that on the statements of a Scientologist co-worker, who told me they didn't. Doing some Internet research, I find that their official website says they do, (I think), or that leave it up to the individual - like Buddhism, I suspect they don't find it relevant to their interests. Their official website says they do have a "concept of God" - "In Scientology, the concept of God is expressed as the Eighth Dynamicâ€â€the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. As the Eighth Dynamic, the Scientology concept of God rests at the very apex of universal survival." I truthfully don't know what that means, but according to them, "Unlike religions with Judeo-Christian origins, the Church of Scientology has no set dogma concerning God that it imposes on its members. As with all its tenets, Scientology does not ask individuals to accept anything on faith alone. Rather, as one’s level of spiritual awareness increases through participation in Scientology auditing and training, one attains his own certainty of every dynamic. Accordingly, only when the Seventh Dynamic (spiritual) is reached in its entirety will one discover and come to a full understanding of the Eighth Dynamic (infinity) and one’s relationship to the Supreme Being." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Scientology charters (or chartered) at least a couple of troops, 313 in Clearwater, FL, and Troop 8 in La Canada, CA. I consider it to also be a criminal organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Scientology charters (or chartered) at least a couple of troops' date=' 313 in Clearwater, FL, and Troop 8 in La Canada, CA. I consider it to also be a criminal organization. As long as religions are controlled by man they will ALL be subject to the failing of man. Hence I am intrigued by those religions without clergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 As long as religions are controlled by man they will ALL be subject to the failing of man. Hence I am intrigued by those religions without clergy. Some Christian sects do not have professional clergy. I've kept company with a few such houses of worship. They have a lot going for them. They also have a lot of disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_in_CA Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Some (not all) Buddhists would describe themselves as atheists, in that they do not believe in God; they could not describe themselves as materialist atheists, as they believe in non-material spiritual forces, and a transcendent higher power. It's skirting the edges of a western understanding of what "religion" is, but it's not atheist in the way the "New Atheist" movement tends to describe itself. I'm curious. I'm not an expert on Buddhism, but what "transcendent higher power" do they believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZMike Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I'm not a Buddhist or an expert by any means either, but Karma would probably be considered as such. It is neither matter nor energy and does not fit a materialist/reductionist view of the universe, and so could probably be considered as transcendent. While it can be argued that it is simply a recognition of spiritual causality, a cause, or a process, it affects the process of reincarnation and rebirth in some way. As Karma is affected by and in some fashion recognizes morally good and morally evil acts, it would seem to encompass objective moral standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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