Faith In Action

[fred johnson]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/CS%20Program%20Transition.pdf

 

Talks about two of the Webelos adventures being Faith In Action. I want to learn more about this. Right now, we leave pretty much all faith discussions to family. Does this mean these two adventures will be demoted to family level just as the current ones are so demoted. When I think about my current Webelos den, I have Catholic, Lutheran, Hindu and non-practicing families. I look forward to learning more about how this will work.

 

From reading the documents on the site, it looks like emphasis on faith is being escalated.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/programupdates.aspx

[King Ding Dong]

Webelos Adventure: Faith in Action (1) Do requirement 1 or requirement 2. If you choose requirement 2, complete 2a plus two more from 2b–2d. 1. Earn the religious emblem of your faith for Webelos Scouts. 2. Do the following: a. Help plan and participate in an interfaith worship service with your den leader. Show reverence during the service. Doesn't seem like that can be demoted to family. Some denominations will have a major problem with this.

[fred johnson]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...Transition.pdf .... There is much to learn.

 

The above link (last page) has "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" on the title section. Why?

 

KDD - The above document (last page) has "Faith in Action" for Webelos and for Arrow of Light are both followed with "family based".

 

KDD ... http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...quirements.pdf says "or family" for adventures. So den is not required for adventures. As for specific requirements, there is a path to only handle it in the family setting for each rank. Sounds like leaving it to families is still an option..

 

Given how diverse our dens are, I'd fully recommend letting it be part of the family activities and when the parents say it's done it's done.

 

I'm glad it's still handled that way.

 

I am concerned though that "Faith In Action" will make Cub Scouts look like a Sunday School program and alienate more people.

 

[King Ding Dong]

Fred, if the wording of the requirement stays the same I don't know how it can be handled in a family setting unless you are a den leader. "Exactly as written". "a. Help plan and participate in an interfaith worship service with your den leader. " doesn't say family.

[fred johnson]

I again sit corrected. I saw so many "2"s that I read it as 2 from section 2. "Do requirement 1 or requirement 2. If you choose requirement 2, complete 2a plus two more from 2b–2d."

 

To be honest, as a den leader, I'd dance around that requirement ... and still leave it to the families. Yeah, it's written as den leader, but I'm not going to step into that mess. I've got evangelical parents who view Catholic faith as evil and I've got Catholic parents that view evangelical services as flaky. Then, you mix in other religions and none practicing families.

 

My number one goal is to give kids a good experience and to keep them in scouting so they join Boy Scouts. Plus, we meet in a public school and recruit from a public school. Scouts will get enough "faith" education as it exists now in Boy Scouts and through discussion with their own parents.

 

I think this will quickly become an "adventure" den leaders punt on.

[King Ding Dong]

I don't know Fred, doesn't seem like a very Trustworthy plan to me.

[King Ding Dong]

Well National could fix this if they got rid of the requirement that a religion needs to charter 5 units before it will recognize its Religious Emblem. I so want to see some Scouts with the Flying Spaghetti Monster on their uniform.

[scoutergipper]

Hey, Fred, I'd suggest you remind your families that calling another's faith "evil" or another's style of worship "flaky" is a violation of the Scout Oath and Law. You're missing an opportunity to put Scouts on the right path.

[LVAllen]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...Transition.pdf .... There is much to learn.

 

The above link (last page) has "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" on the title section. Why?

 

Because the transition for LDS packs will be different than for non-LDS packs. With ordinary packs, you start in the fall, and finish up the program by June. So anyone coming into a den in August/September would be entering the new program. By contrast, LDS Cub Scouts start when they turn 8, and advance by age - at 9 they enter the Bear Den, 10 they enter Webelos, and at 11, they become Boy Scouts. With LDS packs, you might have someone who entered the Wolf Den in March, and who is looking at a wholesale change in the program midway through year as a Wolf. So the BSA put together the transition guide to help den leaders know what requirements from the old program could be considered to have met requirements for the new program. That's all.

 

[fred johnson]

scoutergipper ... Get real. People have opinions. People have thoughts. Many evangelicals view Catholics as "cults". Many evangelicals target Catholics. I see it every Christmas at 1:45am as I leave midnight mass and have a person standing across the street using a bullhorn telling us to repent ... as we leave the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. Same is true of the opposite side as I attended an evangelical service years and the practices and beliefs were way beyond what I was comfortable and would ever want my kids to see until they were old enough to understand.

 

....

 

There is much to learn. I just really hope that the new program does not over emphasize faith. Faith is important, but the only way our pack and our troop has been able to function is that the pack/troop keep a general reverent atmosphere and to leave the rest to the families. Otherwise, I need to have my kids in a Catholic troop. You need to have yours in an LDS troop. Others in a Lutheran troop. Others can have theirs in an atheist troop, etc, etc etc. So much then for citizenship and so much for ever having any hope of recruiting from schools.

 

I really hope to learn more about the program changes.

[Rick_in_CA]

My understanding is that the requirements listed in http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/Appended%20Requirements.pdf are the final ones. We have a diverse pack, in a diverse area. I know we are going to have parents that will have problems with the new faith requirements. It reads to me like the authors didn't consider non-Christians when they wrote them (or did, but went with "who cares?"). This is cub scouts, not Sunday school. The faith components belong in the family.

 

If I am reading things correctly, if we have a cub scout from a faith tradition that doesn't have a recognized religious emblem program, and doesn't allow interfaith worship, they can't earn either the webelos rank or arrow of light.

[fred johnson]

I'm hoping to learn more and hoping to learn it's different than I see so far.

 

This expanded emphasis seems very reactionary and scares me. I fear it could really alienate many people. I'd say 50% of our families are okay with the current reverent level but would turn away if it became anymore a Sunday school program.

 

I know in our pack, I'll recommend we leave faith to the family and their religious leaders and ignore any expansion.

 

I really fear this could drive away yet more scouts and put us below the membership critical mass.

[King Ding Dong]

Rick and Fred 1. Earn the religious emblem of your faith for Webelos Scouts. It does not say "recognized religious emblem". I think all are free to determine what the requirements are and what the emblem should be. For instance I don't have a problem with the Evangelical Church of the Holy Bubble Gum Wrapper Central Synod. The requirements are eat a package of saltines then blow a bubble as fast as you can. When finished you must say, "Thank Bazooka Joe I never have to do that again, Ahmem."

[packsaddle]

Talked with the current CM about this. Says the families from the CO might be ok with it but about 80% of the pack is of 'other' faiths. He expects to lose families...it's not as if there aren't alternatives, plenty of them.

 

When I was CM I tried to impress on the troop and the council the importance of the cubs to the overall program. They seemed to just shrug me off. Perhaps BSA really IS going to become the niche religious organization that they claimed to be years ago.

[Rick_in_CA]

Rick and Fred 1. Earn the religious emblem of your faith for Webelos Scouts. It does not say "recognized religious emblem". I think all are free to determine what the requirements are and what the emblem should be.

 

True, there are some faiths that offer a religious emblem program that isn't recognized (Unitarians, Wiccans, etc.). However, there are others that don't have one either because they are too small in the US, or because they aren't organized enough. Now the Unitarians are fine with interfaith worship, and I don't know the Wiccan stance on it, but if you come from a tradition that doesn't allow it, and doesn't have a religious emblem program, you are SOL.

 

Plus, the requirement says "with the den leader". What if the den leader is from a faith that forbids interfaith worship? Is that going to be a problem (I really don't know)?

 

I read somewhere that this new emphasis on "faith" is a bone that national is trying to throw to the religious conservatives after the membership vote. I think that is a mistake, because it won't work. They won't be happy unless the BSA throws "completely nonsectarian" over the railing.

 

We have Muslim and Hindu scouts in our pack, I'm worried that we may loose some of them over this. The language in the requirements is very Christian, even if the meaning isn't so much.