Thought Experiment: Atheists are openly allowed.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well when a soldier gets into his head that he might die and therefore seeks some religious comfort' date=' the atheist chaplain can remind him that the only thing that awaits him is nonexistence.[/quote']

 

Just like a Christian chaplain can remind the atheist soldier that he's going to burn in hell for eternity. Which is why there should be both.

[qwazse]

Just like a Christian chaplain can remind the atheist soldier that he's going to burn in hell for eternity. Which is why there should be both.

 

The military chaplains that I've known were a breed apart ... working really hard to be all things to all people.

 

Pluralism breaks down on the battlefield. If a Catholic is at death's door with whatever chaplain happens to be in the room, that Chaplain better be prepared to offer last rites, whatever his background. Yes, I would expect an athiest chaplain to pray over my sorry soul. I really don't care what he believes. *I* believe that the Almighty would regard his prayer in spite of his barrel full of doubt.

 

Fact is you never know exactly where a preacher stands with his theology any given day of the week. They're like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get.

 

Of course there are times when the lines aren't so blurred. And that's when a chaplain with a less religious bent might come in handy. If a soldier knows there's this guy on base that isn't going to guilt him about not going to church, he might approach him about getting the help he needs.

[Eagledad]

 

Just like a Christian chaplain can remind the atheist soldier that he's going to burn in hell for eternity. Which is why there should be both.

 

I've been entertained by this thread, but now the discussion has crossed the line of stupid. Qwazse, athiest have NO doubt because they believe there is NO god. An athiest chaplain? LOL Who is fooling who here? For Pete sake.

 

Barry

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Qwazse' date=' athiest have NO doubt because they believe there is NO god.[/quote']

 

Eagledad, stop lying about atheists.

[qwazse]

... I've been entertained by this thread' date=' but now the discussion has crossed the line of stupid. Qwazse, athiest have NO doubt because they believe there is NO god. An athiest chaplain? LOL Who is fooling who here? For Pete sake. ...[/quote']

 

Well, the atheist thinks there's little left of Pete worth regarding, so I'm not sure arguing for his sake will move this discussion along.

 

I know clergy who are as good as godless, but they are in it for to help (the cynical would say control) others. So the concept is not all that far-fetched in my mind.

 

But, regardless of how you judge one's motivation to be a chaplain ... if our boys aren't getting the help they need because they are afraid of some "conversion experience", it would be nice to somehow accommodate them.

[Eagledad]

I know clergy who are as good as godless, but they are in it for to help (the cynical would say control) others. So the concept is not all that far-fetched in my mind.

 

I don’t see what that has to do with atheist chaplains, but at least for Christians, Jesus was pretty specific of the destiny for those types of religious leaders.

 

But' date=' regardless of how you judge one's motivation to be a chaplain ... if our boys aren't getting the help they need because they are afraid of some "conversion experience", it would be nice to somehow accommodate them.[/quote']

 

Well I guess if you are saying that even atheists need someone to hold their hand in the fox hole, OK. But I would hardly call someone who’s best spiritual advice is “No Hope†a chaplain. Let’s call them something else like “dead end counselorâ€Â, “finality guide†or “don’t past go advisorâ€Â. Let’s not add more pop culture gobbledygook than absolutely necessary.

 

Barry

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

But I would hardly call someone who’s best spiritual advice is “No Hope†a chaplain. Let’s call them something else like “dead end counselorâ€Â' date=' “finality guide†or “don’t past go advisorâ€Â. Let’s not add more pop culture gobbledygook than absolutely necessary.[/quote']

 

Well hey, I'll just call you "religious [colorful metaphor deleted by moderator]" then, OK?

[Eagledad]

OK, I had a really big laugh, but now I feel guilty because I hurt your feelings. Honestly though, I don’t understand why you are trying to bring some kind of relevancy to atheist that you have worked so hard trying to separate yourself from. Ask the average person to define atheist and chaplain and you will find I’m pretty dead on. Look up those two same words in most dictionaries and they will support that same public view. Up until now you have not run from what you claim to be; now you want some kind of moral or spiritual prevalence. You have worked very hard to define your status, now you’re having regrets?

 

Barry

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I don’t understand why you are trying to bring some kind of relevancy to atheist that you have worked so hard trying to separate yourself from.

 

I know it's useless to ask, but what atheists have I been trying to separate myself from? Your straw atheists?

 

Ask the average person to define atheist and chaplain and you will find I’m pretty dead on.

 

Which is why you need to ask actual atheists and humanist chaplains, and not the opinions of people like yourself who obviously hate them.

 

Look up those two same words in most dictionaries and they will support that same public view. Up until now you have not run from what you claim to be; now you want some kind of moral or spiritual prevalence. You have worked very hard to define your status' date=' now you’re having regrets?[/quote']

 

Nope, you still don't understand. Try http://militaryatheists.org/chaplain/ and see what actual atheists in the military think.

[RememberSchiff]

Perhaps after this intermission, we can return to the OP topic?

[Sentinel947]

Just a notice that the insults need to stop. I will be making edits moving forward. As to the topic of atheist/humanist chaplains, what's the big deal if they have them in the military? Chaplains are mentors and counselors. To a degree chaplains wear many hats and religious minister is just one of them. But what approving organization would approve humanist chaplains? I know for most Religions they have to be approved by a governing body.

[qwazse]

Also, lest anyone else think this is an irrelevant tangent, Chaplains Aide is a position of responsibility available to boys in a troop. So whatever we learn from the military may apply to us if BSA welcomes the godless into troop life before gays or girls.

[skeptic]

Now those are some of the Scouting memories I can relate to. We had some odd ball songs back in the fifties too that would not necessarily pass courteous, clean, or even kind at times. But we were adolescents; what would you expect? Boy Scouts are still boys, even with the Oath and Law; and sometimes they will do what boys do.

[NJCubScouter]

Putting my seldom-used moderator hat on here. I second Sentinel's statement that the insults need to stop. I also went a little further (or maybe just faster) and deleted the one word in this thread that was clearly over the line. It happened to be in one of Merlyn's posts, but I just want to make clear that I was reacting to the word and not endorsing or criticizing any ideas. (I may do that in a separate post, after I take my hat off; but if I do, it will be a response to the original post and not any of the tangents.) I also will say that I think that the post by Eagledad (which prompted Merlyn's post that now has a redaction in it) crossed the line into insulting the beliefs of others... and beliefs do include lack of belief, non-belief and every other way of thinking. It just didn't contain any words that rang the bell.

[Rick_in_CA]

There are ordained Unitarian ministers that are atheists. I have met devout Buddhists that call themselves atheists, yet we have Buddhists military chaplains. So no, it isn't ridiculous or absurd to have explicitly atheist chaplains as we have them already in the US military.

 

And yes, not all Buddhists are atheists. It is a rich and diverse faith tradition.

 

The word "atheism" covers many modes of thought and belief. Too many people narrowly define it as the loud mouth in the corner shouting at people: "If you believe in God, you are an idiot!". That's like defining all Baptists by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.