Is divorce bad for children

[JasonG172]

I agree with what you are saying Eagledad....It the power of entitlements, everyone is entitled to something regardless of responsibility.

[Torchwood]

So, as parents, we are not allowed to be happy? I spent several years sleeping on a pull-out couch in the basement (and in therapy- both couples counseling and individual sessions), before I finally decided that I couldn't do it any more. To my mind, if kids grow up in a home where the norm is two people who can't be in the same room for any length of time, how can they possibly grow up to have healthy relationships of their own? My parents divorced when I was 31, and my siblings and I were relieved that it had finally happened- after years of fighting, and my father moving out twice when I was in jr. high and high school. Was their unhappiness the root of me marrying the wrong person? I'm not sure. I am remarried, and have shared custody of my kids. They love my wife, and she loves them (she has no kids of her own, and is also divorced). She is very involved in Scouting and other activities with both my son and daughter, and our relationship gives me hope that they will be able to have normal, loving and supportive relationships because of the one that they see her and I in. As for entitlements, I remember some pretty smart men writing the words Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness way back when. So, yeah, I think we are entitled to that. It hasn't made me a less responsible parent, and I don't think I am necessarily the exception.

 

The ONLY parallel I see between divorce and gay marriage is that some religions seem to take issue with both. Okay, whatever makes you happy, but my faith doesn't seem to have an issue with either. The flip side to freedom of religion is freedom from religion. You can believe whatever you want, but I don't have to believe the same thing, and we should both be okay with that. Sounds like courteous and kind to me.

[Stosh]

The long-term impact on children can be quite complicated.

 

Of my 7 children, all from broken homes (my 3 and my wife's 4)

 

1) Son: Into drugs, can't hold a job, has a daughter and is not married. No contact with family.

 

2) Daughter: College educated, stay at home mom, married with one child

 

3) Daughter: Valedictorian, college drop out, married, working, child on the way.

 

4) Daughter: MBA single but dating, Successful business consultant.

 

5) Daughter: MD, divorced, no children. Doing her residency now.

 

6) Daughter: PhD, single, but dating, just starting a new job. Biomechanical engineering working for a pharmaceutical company

 

7) Son: Single but dating, College educated working as electrical engineer.

 

All are in their late 20's/early 30's. Statistically they are all over the place. However, it is noticeable that only two of my kids are married working on family. One has family out of wedlock and one is already divorced, no kids. The rest "date" but are well into their careers and still single, "family" doesn't seem to be much of a option for most of them. My two daughters (#2, #3) are the only ones really interested in a traditional family. If this limited pool of information has any implications for the future generations, I'm thinking that family and marriage may be going by the wayside in our culture. Only a very small percentage of people in America today live in a natural mom, dad, and children household. I grew up in that culture, but my children did not.

 

Stosh

[MattR]

Without a doubt, single parent kids and no parent kids have more problems in my troop. My wife was the softy and I was the hard one (but I bought the dog!). Kids need both. Not sure if divorce is cause or effect. Some of the things I hear the parents/guardians say is amazing. I can work with the boy but sometimes I just feel like slapping the parents up side the head.

 

My parents have been married 64 years, I've been married 27. One brother has been married 35. Another got a divorce but didn't have kids. The common theme in the successful marriages is: plenty of being mad at each other, respect, a few cherished moments of bliss, and the ability to put up with each other. My grandparents went through a period of 5 years where they didn't talk to each other. By the time they had grand kids that was long forgot and they were the favorite grand parents.

 

Community seems to be nearly as important as two parents. Lots of adults watching lots of kids. Parents helping parents. We can measure divorce rate but I'm not sure we can measure community. If my troop was part of a bigger community it would be that much stronger.

[Stosh]

"Community seems to be nearly as important as two parents. Lots of adults watching lots of kids. Parents helping parents. We can measure divorce rate but I'm not sure we can measure community. If my troop was part of a bigger community it would be that much stronger."

 

The "ME" generation and those following have pretty much done away with what would be considered community, 50 years ago. We haven't been a community based society since the mid 1960's. Divorce is only a symptom of this problem. The last block party I attended was in the early 1970's.

 

Along with divorce, mobility, and paranoia have helped with the breakdown of these relationships. I often wonder where the traditional dating routines went?

 

Where does one learn about marriage, commitment, and avoidance of divorce when there are so few examples of it left. Now we have created other substitute institutions to replace what has been lost. Gay marriages, sport teams, gangs, social networks, etc. so that people can think they have some sort of belonging relationships in their lives even if it's only for a short period of time. Long term commitments? Well, they are pretty much passe now.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

Long term commitments? Well' date=' they are pretty much passe now.[/quote']

 

Gotta agree with you stosh. I think most couples today get married knowing that divorce can save them from the work of commitment. Even worse, I think they feel the same way about having kids. There are lots of acceptable methods for abandoning our children without shame. Barry

[Rick_in_CA]

"Community seems to be nearly as important as two parents. Lots of adults watching lots of kids. Parents helping parents. We can measure divorce rate but I'm not sure we can measure community. If my troop was part of a bigger community it would be that much stronger."

 

The "ME" generation and those following have pretty much done away with what would be considered community, 50 years ago. We haven't been a community based society since the mid 1960's. Divorce is only a symptom of this problem. The last block party I attended was in the early 1970's.

 

Along with divorce, mobility, and paranoia have helped with the breakdown of these relationships. I often wonder where the traditional dating routines went?

 

You guys are right about the importance of community in helping families stay together. However the biggest drivers in dismantling our neighborhood communities were economic (NOT the selfishness of the "Me generation"). Stosh hit it on the head when he pointed out "mobility". Fifty years ago Dad probably had a job with a pension, and a reasonable expectation that he would work at the same place till he retired. Mom was probably a stay-at-home Mom who was active in various official and unofficial community based groups (PTA, volunteering at the local school, den mother, church, etc.). They got to know all their neighbors because the neighbors were involved with the same activities, their children played together, and the neighbors didn't change too often.

 

Now days, companies treat employees as commodities, they lay them off at the drop of the hat. Pensions are gone. Both parents often need to work full time. If you stay more than ten years with the same company that is very unusual. I've had managers say they won't hire someone that doesn't change jobs every five years because that shows they "don't have any drive". I've been living at my current home for six years. I only have one neighbor that was here when I moved in. Every other place has turned over at least once (a couple twice).

 

Also the kids don't play with the neighbor kids anymore. They instead are driven by their parents to scheduled activities, and "play dates" with the children of the parent's friends. So another mechanism by which we got to know our neighbors is gone (you are going to play over at Billy's house? I better get to know his parents.).

[SM bob]

I agree that the lack of community and the over scheduled life is what hurts marriages. The LDS understand this issue. Thats why they have Sunday as family, couple, then separated services followed by the whole family getting together for Sunday dinner. We as a culture have lost the neighborhood community support structure that helps couples. Neighbors used to watch each other's kids so couples go out on date nights. People would hang out in front of the house talking as kids play. The ME generation does not or were ever exposed to community system that helped families work through issues.

[Stosh]

 

Gotta agree with you stosh. I think most couples today get married knowing that divorce can save them from the work of commitment. Even worse, I think they feel the same way about having kids. There are lots of acceptable methods for abandoning our children without shame. Barry

 

I often wonder how many marriages would be strong today if the commitment to stay married was as strong as the commitment to get married? Marriage used to be more than just two people getting together. It meant having a family. It's difficult enough to have a commitment to a relationship without having the encumbrance of rug rats.

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

Sometimes those of us in stable marriages feel like we are picking up the pieces for those who aren't. That's pretty arrogant of us because really I see single parents doing double-shifts to make things work out, and anything the Mrs. and I might do counts for a drop in a bucket.

 

My parents argued incessantly during their waking hours, but never took to separate beds. For all the grief, at the end of their days they had each other and that was something. I don't think it would have been worth "the peace" had they split up. (Shoot, if they broke up before they turned 40, I wouldn't have been here to type this!) So, that "long view" is what I took into this marriage. Still I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Q's willingness to put up with me has more to do with her good graces than any significant amount of work on my part!

 

So, while I do believe there is a point where kids might benefit from parents who aren't constantly on the brink of violence, I think many of us -- even at our worst -- are better sticking together for the sake of the kids. Most of us, however, have no clue what we can put up with or what we can afford to change so that our spouse can put up with us. I guess this is where community comes in.

[Eagledad]

Sometimes those of us in stable marriages feel like we are picking up the pieces for those who aren't. That's pretty arrogant of us because really I see single parents doing double-shifts to make things work out' date=' and anything the Mrs. and I might do counts for a drop in a bucket..[/quote']

 

I’m not sure what you mean by arrogant, but I agree that single parents are the hardest working parents I know. I can't even imagine raising my kids without my wife. It scares me to even consider the idea.

 

I work with a single dad who I've known for over 21 years. I was his son’s soccer coach from age 6 to age 14. I was his son’s troop leader until age 13. I have been watching both dad and son (and sister) struggle with being a family since the day mom left when the son was eight years old. I told dad many times that he deserves to be father of the year.

 

Today the son has been in therapy for several years to control his anger and his sister is a 23 year old single mother who lives with dad. It's not just the wear and tear of double parent duties I saw in dad’s eyes, it was also the hurt from watching his kids friends have normal lives. He aged so fast.

 

As scout leaders, we all have several of these kinds of stories. And I’m am glad that many folks here have picked up from their parents struggles and moved on, and it seems unanimous so far on the forum that divorce is not good for kids. And I’m not sure anyone here disagrees that the damage is permanent. So why as a culture do we allow it?

 

Barry

 

[Rick_in_CA]

And I’m not sure anyone here disagrees that the damage is permanent. So why as a culture do we allow it?

 

Maybe because the damage caused by raising children in miserable, abusive, hateful homes can be worse? Sometimes divorce is the best of a bad set of options.

[walk in the woods]

 

 

And I’m not sure anyone here disagrees that the damage is permanent. So why as a culture do we allow it?

 

 

I would argue that over the last 50 years or so marriage has gone from being a sacred institution purposely designed to value the family, and the children in that family, over the individual to an institution designed for the benefit of the adults entering it. As a result society doesn't value marriage any more than it does the end of a service warranty on a new car. Anything that isn't valued is easy to discard.

[Eagledad]

 

 

I would argue that over the last 50 years or so marriage has gone from being a sacred institution purposely designed to value the family, and the children in that family, over the individual to an institution designed for the benefit of the adults entering it. As a result society doesn't value marriage any more than it does the end of a service warranty on a new car. Anything that isn't valued is easy to discard.

 

Wow, that is really good. I will have to memorize that analogy.

 

Barry

[King Ding Dong]

Maybe because the damage caused by raising children in miserable' date=' abusive, hateful homes can be worse? Sometimes divorce is the best of a bad set of options.[/quote'] Exactly. I know the pain first hand and it stinks. Mom left at 7, then had a miserable selfish Witch of a step mom who left at 14. Good for nothing Boomers. Didn't realize it at the time but that &:{^}}#Â¥{^ was toxic and had to go. Made me real gun shy of marriage. Made my wife wait 4 years before I proposed.