Convicted, registered predator attends Troop fundraiser

[qwazse]

If I were the CC, I would tell that ASM to refer reporters to council HQ.

But, since the cat's out of the bag ...

 

I'm with Stosh. Sure, you could legally inform him he's not welcome, but there comes a time in your life where you have to face down your demons. I would let scouts (and parents) know that they can look an erstwhile predator in they eye and do business with a handshake and a smile, but not let him have any of the leadership privileges over youth that should be the sole rights of the trustworthy.

 

The memory of "uncomfortable feeling" might come in handy one day when that boy is in a privileged position and finds himself tempted to do something untoward.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

This person paid their debt' date=' the maximum sentence, so leave him alone.[/quote']

That's exactly what I'm advocating. Excluding him from future scouting activities is leaving him alone, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Oldscout448]

Stosh,

Thanks for the response, for what it's worth, I was faced with this nearly exact situation two years ago, except I was the only one in the troop who knew this guys history, I didn't throw him out, or call the police. I DID tell the SM and we DID watch him like hawks. all day long.

Oldscout

[Stosh]

Stosh,

Thanks for the response, for what it's worth, I was faced with this nearly exact situation two years ago, except I was the only one in the troop who knew this guys history, I didn't throw him out, or call the police. I DID tell the SM and we DID watch him like hawks. all day long.

Oldscout

 

Exactly, that is all one can do in a situation like this and still remain true to the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

That's exactly what I'm advocating. Excluding him from future scouting activities is leaving him alone, n'est-ce pas?

 

No, telling someone they are not welcomed at a public event is not leaving them alone. That is tantamount to trying to impose one's will on someone else. Leaving them alone is not bothering them when they show up to support an activity. One might be a bit more on the alert, but as long as they follow the expectations of civil norms, no harm, no foul.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No' date=' telling someone they are not welcomed at a public event is not leaving them alone. That is tantamount to trying to impose one's will on someone else.[/quote']

That's ridiculous. Isn't he trying to impose his will just as much by showing up?

[AZMike]

 

No, telling someone they are not welcomed at a public event is not leaving them alone. That is tantamount to trying to impose one's will on someone else. Leaving them alone is not bothering them when they show up to support an activity. One might be a bit more on the alert, but as long as they follow the expectations of civil norms, no harm, no foul.

 

Stosh

 

Wow. Just Wow.

 

One has the right to refuse service to anyone. I would have told him he had to leave. One can refuse to allow someone within the hall if they aren't wearing shoes, if they have been obnoxious in the past, if they aren't wearing a collared shirt, or certainly, if they raped a boy scout. You may consider me "discriminating" or a "bigot" for thinking that way, but if so, then fine. By your standards I'm a discriminating bigot. My charge to protect the boys in my troop overrides your feelings. If the individual doesn't like it, he can file a suit for unlawful discrimination against Pederastic Americans. Let's see if he's willing to go there. I would have told him he had to leave, no questions and no arguing.

[Stosh]

"That's ridiculous. Isn't he trying to impose his will just as much by showing up?"

 

And who's to say that this gentleman showed up by invitation of his wife, a council employee? No one knows that except the gentleman and his wife. I'm sure no one bothered to ask. Jumping to conclusions is not in line with the Scout Law and Promise.

 

"One has the right to refuse service to anyone."

 

Did anyone post signage, like "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service"? That's law in many communities. People come to restaurants and bars knowing the law. So, next time one has a fundraiser, make sure one posts the sign, "No Convicted Felons Allowed." That should take care of your problem, and it will keep away a lot of unsavory donors from the boys. It will surely keep anyone with two or more DUI's in this state from showing up to support the cause. Might even keep away a few of the unsavory parents, too.

 

I find that people who are so angry they "see red", most likely can't see much of anything else in any given situation. People who are blinded by anger usually can't see the Scout Law and Promise either.

 

Stosh

 

[qwazse]

That's ridiculous. Isn't he trying to impose his will just as much by showing up?

 

We all are trying to impose our will by showing up and paying well above cost for a dinner served by amateurs! We are willing that those amateurs continue to do the good we think they are doing in the world.

 

Now, those amateurs have every right to refuse an ex-con's charity. But they aren't obligated to exercise that right just because they are obligated to refuse his/her leadership.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"That's ridiculous. Isn't he trying to impose his will just as much by showing up?"

 

And who's to say that this gentleman showed up by invitation of his wife, a council employee?

 

That isn't relevant. The people running the fundraiser can still refuse him admittance.

 

"One has the right to refuse service to anyone."

 

Did anyone post signage, like "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service"? That's law in many communities.

 

Anyone can be excluded for cause, signs aren't required. I haven't seen any place that has signs warning patrons to not tip over all the tables, but I suspect anywhere you go you'd be tossed out soon.

[Stosh]

It kinda gets me to thinking along the lines of this guy's wife. Yes, it's all speculation because no one asked her anything.....

 

She's an employee of the council. Would it look bad for her to bring her husband to such an event without first checking it out with her employer? Heck, if it was me, I surely would. And had the employer said, "No way in Hell!" or words to that effect, I would have stayed home and fixed supper for my hubby and if I still felt strong about it, sent off a check to help the boys out anyway. I've bought hundreds of tickets that I never used just become some youth organization was selling them. I wonder how the scout that sold them the tickets felt? Maybe we don't worry about him.

 

However, she risked her employment by bringing her husband to the event. What if the SE had said, "I don't think there would be a problem with that." Okay, he made a bad choice as things turned out. Is the wife going to get fired for a lapse in judgment? Should the SE be fired for a lapse in judgment?

 

A ton of questions float through my mind as I try to sort them out. Each one is measured against the Scout Law and Promise.

Trustworthy, I should be able to keep an eye on this guy to protect my scouts. Not a problem.

Loyal... hmmm, maybe to the Scout Law and Promise.

Helpful, okay, I don't really want to be helpful to his guy, but maybe what I do is helpful to his wife who's a council employee facing a difficult situation which is of no making of her own.

Friendly... Toss the bum out, doesn't come to mind here.

Courteous... I can put on a civil show for the duration of the situation.

Kind.... Gotta work up to it, but I can do that.

Obedient.... to the Law and Promise? I can do that.

Cheerful.... I can smile even in the most difficult situations.

Thrifty.... he and his wife are supporting the scouts, but I don't want to sell my soul in the process. If he behaves himself and writes a check, it will be okay.

Brave.... Yeah, in a difficult situation where my sense of right and wrong is challenged, am I up to the task?

Clean... Okay I won't spit in his food.

Reverent.... what does my faith tell me is right. How do I see my duty to God in this situation? "When did I see you in prison, Lord?"

 

I'm not saying it's going to be impossible, but it will be difficult, but sometimes doing the right thing isn't the easy road to take, nor is it the road most often taken.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

"Anyone can be excluded for cause, signs aren't required. I haven't seen any place that has signs warning patrons to not tip over all the tables, but I suspect anywhere you go you'd be tossed out soon."

 

This is pretty much a ridiculous argument, people who tip over tables get tossed out of a place because they are tipping over tables, not because they are convicted felons.

 

The new article on this guy didn't mention he tipped over any tables.

 

Stosh

[RememberSchiff]

Maybe a review of Youth Protection, particularly the 3 R's would help. There is no conflict with the Scout Oath and Law in insuring safety for a scout activity, in fact, just the opposite.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ypt/pdf/46-015.pdf ... "trust your gut..if the situation feels uncomfortable,..." convicted, sexual predator at a scout activity, my gut says he is stalking. I am entrusted with the safety of my scouts and I hope to remain worthy of that trust.

 

From what I read in this post, this incident should be included and discussed in YP training. There is much that is uncomfortable about this story.

 

That's my $0.02,

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"Anyone can be excluded for cause, signs aren't required. I haven't seen any place that has signs warning patrons to not tip over all the tables, but I suspect anywhere you go you'd be tossed out soon."

 

This is pretty much a ridiculous argument, people who tip over tables get tossed out of a place because they are tipping over tables, not because they are convicted felons.

 

People can be tossed out for either reason with no signs needed.

[IM_Kathy]

What I would do would depend on a few factors...

 

Is this a church fundraisers the scouts were working or was this advertised as a scout fundraiser? and was this person banned from scouting?

 

If person has been banned from scouting and this was advertised as a scouting function then I would let the person know that this is a scouting function and he needs to leave. If this was a church fundraiser and the scouts were just working it then there's nothing I could do but keep my eye out.

 

for example: Every lent our scouts work 2 of the weeks of friday fish-fry run by a local church. We help with tables and such and supply desserts for free-will donations. There it's advertised as a church function so unless been there before you wouldn't know scouts were there. Either way it's a church function and should be allowed to stay. On the other hand we've had scouts do spaghetti dinners for eagle fundraisers where it's advertised as an eagle scout project fundraiser so then the person would know it was a scout function and should be asked to leave