Anyone familiar with LDS camping rules?

[christineka]

My son is 11, so he's in the 11 year old patrol, which has different rules in LDS scouting. He needs to go on campouts with his father, except his father can't go this month. I need to find some alternative. Scouting rules for webelos (which seem to be similar to church rules for 11 year olds) allows me to designate one of the other boys' fathers to be his guardian. Can I do that in lds scouting as well? I see LDS scouting doesn't allow a woman (even leader) to participate in an overnighter.

 

I was able to easily talk my dad into coming out for scout camp for my son, but since he's got to get airplane tickets to come out here, I can't ask for an overnighter, too. His other grandfather lives in Utah, but I'm not sure he'd be willing (or available) to go camping that particular weekend.

[qwazse]

This makes me feel sad. No uncles are free? Have you talked to the SM to see there are any alternatives?

[christineka]

The only relatives in the state of Utah are my husband's parents and they moved here after visiting us and finding out how cheap a big, beautiful house would be, compared to the worth of their little, old house in California. (Sold for more than twice the price of their Utah home). The uncles are in California and don't have the time to take quick road trips out to Utah for scout overnighters.

 

We did reach a solution for next weekend. Leader's family is going to be camping nearby, so my son and I will go camp near them.

 

Then there's a scout camp for 11 year olds a few weeks later, but the boys are not required to stay over night, so I can take my son home for the night, if there is no way to allow him to stay overnight.

[koolaidman]

Looks like you can designate another dad to look after your lad. See page 4 last paragraph on the left, continuing on the right hand side:

 

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/english/young-men/35814_scout-handbook_eng.pdf?lang=eng

 

This looks to be helpful info too: https://www.lds.org/callings/primary/leader-resources/scouting-in-primary/eleven-year-old-scouts

 

 

[LVAllen]

The only "special" rules for the LDS 11 year olds are that they can only camp overnight 3 times a year and can't attend the week-long summer camp with the troop. That's it. There are no requirements that a father accompany him. Anyone who tells you differently, quite frankly, doesn't know what they are talking about. Fathers are encouraged to participate with their sons and with boys whose fathers can't attend, but that does not mean that the boys are prohibited from camping if their father can't make it. Also, you can attend. Women can't camp with the troop as a leader, but you can camp with the troop as a parent, as can any other parent. While you should expect some push-back on this, ultimately, it's your right to view any of the operations of the troop.

 

The boys should still be planning everything as a patrol, camping as a patrol, and working together as a patrol. Since none of their fathers are a member of the patrol, it doesn't matter whether any of the fathers are able to attend.

[christineka]

A 10 year old boy, who is moving to boy scouts early because his dad is in "regular" (12+) boy scouts and goes to everything is going to the week long scout camp, so I asked if my son could go too. Scoutmaster came on Wednesday, said he could go- just needed a male relative to come with him, so my dad's made plans to come and then on Sunday, scoutmaster says to hold on. I guess the bishop isn't approving this plan now. The bishop also is not liking the frequent camping. He isn't on board with the 11 year old leader's plan to move the boys through the ranks. Perhaps this is why the boys should be planning everything and then the adults can just go with what the boys want, instead of the adults being at odds with each other.

[qwazse]

Well, I'm personally proud of you for trying to push the church rules as far as you can. But, at the same time, you can't outpace a bishop who is stickler for protocol. Just like the LDS allows someone other than the 11-year-old's dad to be with him on a weekend campout, it does not allow him to camp for a week long! So, if you are going to call on rules when they permit you to do something, you're kinda obliged to stick to them when they restrict you.

 

Maybe the boys can approach the bishop with a plan for what they'd like to do. Maybe not summer camp, but a weekend here and there, and some service projects, Scout Sunday, visit a mission or whatever. Maybe not advance to First Class, but maybe Tenderfoot at least do some of the activities outlined in the trail to first class. Maybe the bishop would be willing to be the "community leader" that helps the boys go over their rights and responsibilities as a US citizen.

 

Then maybe your dad can still take a few days off and make it a special time with his grandson. Just because he's not scouting, doesn't mean he can't have fun.

[LVAllen]

If your son is really gung-ho about camping, you might consider sending him to camp that does provisional camping like Tifie at Mountain Dell. The camp provides the adult leadership, runs a troop for the week, and your son doesn't have to worry about ridiculous rules preventing him from camping and having a blast during the summer.

[christineka]

So, if you are going to call on rules when they permit you to do something, you're kinda obliged to stick to them when they restrict you.

 

But it isn't across the board. An *almost* 11 year old scout gets to go to camp because his dad is a troop leader. This kid gets to go to everything. It just seems unfair because in the church you don't get to volunteer to be in scouts.