2 questions about WEBELOS

[qwazse]

... I just don't understand why they cannot do this as a group in the den meetings.

 

Well if all the boys had done it at meetings, they would not want to do it at camp! It's time to stop thinking about awards and such and start thinking about the boy.

 

The point is to get the boy comfortable on outings with buddies. If it takes time to do that, then take the time!

Either dad goes to camp with the boy, or they hold back a year, or maybe both.

 

Idea: Have the boy invite the den to camp in the back yard! Not for the requirement, but just to get him comfortable with his buddies in the tent with him.

 

When son #2 was 11 and crossed over, one cool morning he walked across the field, found my tent, and asked to hunker down at 4 am. I wasn't about to pull out the "boy led" rhetoric. I unzipped my bag and let him spoon up. He just needed that one more morning knowing that I was there for him. Since then, he's been just fine.

 

Let me repeat: WORK WITH THE BOY, NOT THE REQUIREMENTS!!!!

[HappyHitchhiker]

 

 

Let me repeat: WORK WITH THE BOY, NOT THE REQUIREMENTS!!!!

 

This is what has been happening all year. He's not ready to go to sleep away camp. The den leader said these will not be covered except during the camp. Even if I could afford the $100+ dollars to send him to camp it would be a fight to get him to go. Since all the other boys are going by age rather than grade (most are in 5th grade this year and nearing 11) my son wants to hang back and not cross over until next spring when he finishes 5th grade but the den leader said he couldn't do that. He has to cross over with the rest of the boys or sit out of scouts until he turns 11. He has had options for hikes and local camping (with me) but has not been able to find a ride. It is frustrating. I am pushing him to grow up and be more independent but he can only mature at his own pace. I am sure he is not the only 9 year old who doesn't like being away from home for a week. He has been to Boy Scout events and loved it. He is looking forward to Boy Scouts. It's just defeating when the rules change depending on who you talk to.

[Sidney Porter]

I was reading the OP again. I noticed that they are also requiring aquanaut. That is not required for arrow of light. IMHO the BSA has enough rules around the requirements w/o the den leader making up his own.

[Torchwood]

At the risk of repeating what has been said on this site over and over and over again: NO LEADER CAN ADD OR SUBTRACT OR OTHERWISE CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR ANY ADVANCEMENT!!! There is NOTHING in the rules that states that Activity Badges can only be earned at summer camp, and there is certainly NO REQUIREMENT that Aquanaut must be earned to earn the Arrow of Light. Ask the Den Leader, the Advancement Chair and/or the Cubmaster to show you where any of these rules are written. Better yet, hand them a copy of the Guide to Advancement and make them point it out.

 

[King Ding Dong]

At the risk of repeating what has been said on this site over and over and over again: NO LEADER CAN ADD OR SUBTRACT OR OTHERWISE CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS FOR ANY ADVANCEMENT!!! There is NOTHING in the rules that states that Activity Badges can only be earned at summer camp' date=' and there is certainly NO REQUIREMENT that Aquanaut must be earned to earn the Arrow of Light. Ask the Den Leader, the Advancement Chair and/or the Cubmaster to show you where any of these rules are written. Better yet, hand them a copy of the Guide to Advancement and make them point it out. [/quote'] People like this don't give a crap what the GTA says. I have tried that one several times, they just get more obstinate. I have never heard of taking Cub issues to the District Advancement Chair or higher, they would probably just start laughing. Happyhitchhiker, I am a bit confused. Is this your son we are talking about or another boy?

[perdidochas]

 

This is what has been happening all year. He's not ready to go to sleep away camp. The den leader said these will not be covered except during the camp. Even if I could afford the $100+ dollars to send him to camp it would be a fight to get him to go. Since all the other boys are going by age rather than grade (most are in 5th grade this year and nearing 11) my son wants to hang back and not cross over until next spring when he finishes 5th grade but the den leader said he couldn't do that. He has to cross over with the rest of the boys or sit out of scouts until he turns 11. He has had options for hikes and local camping (with me) but has not been able to find a ride. It is frustrating. I am pushing him to grow up and be more independent but he can only mature at his own pace. I am sure he is not the only 9 year old who doesn't like being away from home for a week. He has been to Boy Scout events and loved it. He is looking forward to Boy Scouts. It's just defeating when the rules change depending on who you talk to.

 

I'm confused. Do you mean most of the boys in the den are in 5th grade now, May 2014? If so, they need to be crossing over now, or when they finish the 5th grade this summer. If so, does that mean they plan to crossover when they are in the 6th grade? I'm confused. They can't be Webelos and in the 6th grade. What grade is your son in?

 

Also, crossing over is not up to the Webelos Den Leader--it's up to the Scoutmaster/Committee chair of the Troop. Crossing over is a Troop function, not a Pack or Den function. If the troop will take him, he can crossover once he's 10 and has the AOL, or once he's finished 5th grade, or is 11, without AOL. Now, the Troop may be onboard with this "Den Leader", so you may want to look at other Troops.

 

Aquanaut is not a requirement for AOL, although it can be part of it. I think you need to keep your boy in Webelos as long as you can. Ask the current Bear den leader if your boy can be in his den next year.

[HappyHitchhiker]

 

I'm confused. Do you mean most of the boys in the den are in 5th grade now, May 2014? If so, they need to be crossing over now, or when they finish the 5th grade this summer. If so, does that mean they plan to crossover when they are in the 6th grade? I'm confused. They can't be Webelos and in the 6th grade. What grade is your son in?

 

Also, crossing over is not up to the Webelos Den Leader--it's up to the Scoutmaster/Committee chair of the Troop. Crossing over is a Troop function, not a Pack or Den function. If the troop will take him, he can crossover once he's 10 and has the AOL, or once he's finished 5th grade, or is 11, without AOL. Now, the Troop may be onboard with this "Den Leader", so you may want to look at other Troops.

 

Aquanaut is not a requirement for AOL, although it can be part of it. I think you need to keep your boy in Webelos as long as you can. Ask the current Bear den leader if your boy can be in his den next year.

 

All but a few of the boys are in 5th grade this year (2013-2014 school year). This den crosses over in December and so yes they will be WEBELOS for the summer and 4 months into 6th grade. The pack says they have until they turn 11 (give or take) before they have to move up to Boy Scouts. Crossing over does not involve any Boy Scout troop, nor are they at the ceremony. The pack moves up all the boys in February (at Blue and Gold) and they begin working on the next rank's requirements. The den leader will not accept any work done outside of the meetings and has turned the WEBELOS over to the boys to lead (with a little guidance with the hand and power tools).

[BadenP]

HH - Torch is correct no leader can add to or change the requirements for advancement and they can not have the boys leading the den as they will get that chance when they join a troop.

[qwazse]

"We don't care what DL don't allow, We be loyal scouts anyhow ...." Bottom line: your boy won't complete AOL, he won't complete 5th grade, and he won't be 11. He really should be in a the next younger den, and there should be no reason to dey that to him,

[dedkad]

As qwazse said, couldn't he move to the next lower den? I had a boy join my Webelos den in 5th grade for the first time as a Cub Scout. I told him up front that our den was only going to be together until February when the rest of the boys earned their AOL and bridged over. He said that was OK. He came to our meetings until January, then moved down to the den below us. He will stay with them until he turns 11 this summer and can move on to Boy Scouts. Everyone is happy. Do you not have a den below you that he can move into?

[perdidochas]

 

All but a few of the boys are in 5th grade this year (2013-2014 school year). This den crosses over in December and so yes they will be WEBELOS for the summer and 4 months into 6th grade. The pack says they have until they turn 11 (give or take) before they have to move up to Boy Scouts. Crossing over does not involve any Boy Scout troop, nor are they at the ceremony. The pack moves up all the boys in February (at Blue and Gold) and they begin working on the next rank's requirements. The den leader will not accept any work done outside of the meetings and has turned the WEBELOS over to the boys to lead (with a little guidance with the hand and power tools).

 

This pack is all messed up. If they are in the 6th grade they CANNOT be Webelos according to rules.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/FAQS/joining.aspx

 

Cub Scouting is for boys in the first through fifth grades, or 7 to 10 years of age. Boys who are older than 10, or who have completed the fifth grade, can no longer join Cub Scouting, but they may be eligible to join the Boy Scouting or Venturing program.

 

Those boys should be crossing over NOW. The Pack is wrong. They have to move up when they are in the 6th grade. Crossing over is when a scouts moves from Webelos to Boy Scouts. It is not a Pack function. It is often confused with Arrow of Light, which is a pack function.

 

Is there another Pack around? If so, run!!!!!! If not, can your boy join the next younger group in the Pack.

 

You need to go to the Council and talk to them about all of this. It's just wrong.

 

[Goodoldowl]

Others have posted the following response, but it's worth repeating: the advancement requirements are found in the Guide to Advancement, and den leaders can't add to those requirements. If that den leader can't point out chapter and verse where they get the authority to add restrictions on badge earning, they're wrong. How you tell them that is up to you. As Cubmaster, I get real tired of scouters and adults who don't think Scouting, as written and prescribed by the BSA, is "scouting" enough so they want to make up rules to make it "tough." Honestly, lots of cub scouting appeals to the Molly Mommycoddle type moms who like "craft scouting," and the program is flexible enough to allow more of that if the leaders decide that's what they want to do (some of us don't want that, but we make due; most of life is doing what we don't want to do now so we can do what we want later). In the end, the BSA says what cub scouting is, so that's what it is. If that's not "tough" enough for some families, I encourage them to start their own youth service organization.