Question about 1st Class/ 1st year

[Fat Old Guy]

OGE, you lost me completely in that last posting. Are you having a Senior moment?

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

FOG, I thought an astute man of the world like you would recognize dialogue from The Godfather and Godfather II.

 

Sorry to have confused you

 

 

[peewee]

The troop should be commited, provide a good program and opportunity for the boys to work on rank advancements (at all of the camp outs) we use a jr. scout master and a ASM that watch over progerss -- we would like to see the boys get to first class that year -- but some take longer -- fun needs to happen along the way-- RM

[Fat Old Guy]

"FOG, I thought an astute man of the world like you would recognize dialogue from The Godfather and Godfather II."

 

The closest that I came to seeing the Godfather was reading the Mad Magazine version of it and that was nearly 30 years ago.

[EagleInKY]

FOG - Regarding the "We are trying to get all the boys to FC by May" comment. That is an astute observation and a fair critique. You have to forgive me, I've been back in Boy Scouts for a year after a five year hiatus in Cub Scouting. I still sometimes call patrols "dens" from time to time. So, you are correct that the way I worded it sounded more like a den leader.

 

So, let me try to redeem myself. What I should have said is that we have put together a program - with the boy's involvement - that affords the boys the opportunity to reach FC by May. That is, if the boys are involved, attend most meetings and campouts, and make the individual effort, then they should have no problem making that target.

 

I believe OGE said it best back in his first post on the subject - "First Class First Year means the Troop is committed to providing a program so that the opportunity for a scout to advance to First class in a year is possible, not a certainty. ". That is what we are trying to do.

[dsteele]

Some have referred to this type of discussion as a "mountain hanging by a thread."

 

Some time ago, there was a survey and it was determined (I've found none who disagree with it) that Scouts to earn the rank of First Class within 12 months of joining a troop are more likely to continue in their tenure. Scouts who fail to earn First Class within 12 months tend to quit the program.

 

There was no statement made about the quality of the program, the quality of the parent, or the quality of the Scout.

 

The assumption from the study was that we should do all we can to give every kid the opportunity to earn First Class within the first year (12 months) of joining the troop.

 

After that, stuff like the stuff that has been posted in this thread has come.

 

I think it's up to the troop to offer the opportunities and up to the Scout to take them.

 

DS

[LauraT7]

Mark, I'll give you extra points for the long reply -

 

Esp since it gave me some good ideas.

 

thanks

 

 

 

[KA6BSA]

The advancement of the boys should be "by the boys." Having the troop adult leaders thinking like Den Leaders pushing the boys to a new rank on time... that is against the fundamental principle that the troop is "boy run" and that rank advancement is up to the motivation of each Scout. It is Cub Scout thinking spilling over into Boy Scouts where it doesn't belong. Doing something successful and useful for themselves, whether it is cooking a good meal or passing First Class, is the most important lesson the boys can learn about growing up. The adults take that away from them by setting their goals and pushing them through all the steps for completion. With an engaging troop program and good patrol method the boys will naturally want to advance, and if they don't make rank "on time" they will not feel such a failure to quit trying.(This message has been edited by KA6BSA)

[Bob White]

The first three ranks of the Boy Scout program are designed to to be managed by the adult leaders. First Class Emphasis is not a race for the scouts to see how fast they can advance. It is a program structure for the adult leaders.

 

If the program for the new scouts is not active enough and organized enough to provide scouts the opportunity to learn practice and apply the requirements needed to achieve First Class in 12 to 14 months then the troop program is not sufficient to retain a boy in scouting.

 

for scouts other than the New Scout patrol the BSA has a monthly theme structure that takes the regular patrols and venture patrols and provides for theme a monthly program that progresses form a review of existing skills to an introduction of related merit badges.

 

It's a program. It has a structure that has been been developed, tested and grows in challenge with the age of the scout. And it only works if it is used.

 

Bob White

 

 

[evmori]

I asked this question before and Bob White was to look into it but never got an answer. So I'll ask again but I would like to direct it to dsteele. Are there any statistics regarding the First Class/First Year program? Are more Scouts retained in Scouting because of it?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[hops_scout]

Dave, that stat is not always true, I know from experience...

I barely got Tenderfoot in a year. 1st Class for me didnt come until almost 3 years later.

[Bob White]

As I reported to this forum in the past, I contacted the national office and they were unable to find the statistics that were used when the First Class Emphasis was introduce in the early 1980s. But as they pointed out whether you buy into the statistics or not, First Class Emphasis is the current program as presented to the boys in the Boy Scout Handbook, and to the Scoutmasters and Asst. Scoutmasters in the BSA Leadership training.

 

To those who use and follow the scouting program statistics are not needed, to those who continue to avoid learning and using the program no statistic will change them.

 

Hops,

Dave didn't say that it was true in every case. What we do know is, it's more often true than not. It would not be wise to ignore any probability that wasn't 100%.

 

Perhaps a better measure would be to compare two units, one that uses the First Class Emphasis and one that does not. I would be happy to share my experience with you, perhaps someone who has been a scoutmaster that has not used First Class Emphasis would share the troop membership trend they have experienced. Perhaps evmori would participate? He has often said how he does not use the recommended Patrol structure, OR First Class Emphasis. How did the unit he serves thrive outside of the recommended program? Why don't you ask him?

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

So we are to blindly follow a program the BSA says works but has no actual proof that it does work? I'm not a lemming. Kids learn at different rates. If a Scout reaches 1st Class in on year, great! If he doesn't the program he is in is a failure? I don't think so.

 

I looked up the last four Scouts who earned Eagle in my Troop & none of them earned 1st Class in one year. And I am not measuring the success of my Troop by the number of Eagles. Just making an observation.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White]

First Class Emphasis is about the the opportunity for activity and advancement offered to New Scouts to hook them on the program. So the measure that needs to be considered is How many new Scouts joined the troop and how many have stayed in.

 

So perhaps evmori you will share

 

1) How many new scouts have joined the troop in the last two years?

 

2) how many are still in the troop?

 

3) What rank are they now?

 

I think these answers will give us the information we need to determine if First Class Emphasis is important or not. I for one look forward to your numbers.

 

Bob White

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

"So we are to blindly follow a program the BSA says works but has no actual proof that it does work?"

 

Yes, of couse you are.