Sex and Scouting

[Eamonn]

I have to admit that I am never very at ease talking about sex. This could be my Irish catholic up-bringing. At home it was something that was was never brought up.It was just one of those things that we didn't talk about.

Even at school this was something that was taught not by the teachers. They brought in the people from the Health Department.

A great deal of what might be called my Sex Education was done by my older brother, what I learned in the boys bathroom and at Scout camp.

Maybe because of my being so ill at ease talking about it, in all the time that I was a Scout Leader I just "Didn't go there."

I have presented both the youth protection tapes which for some reason I can never remember which one is which. The one for Cub Scouts, "It happened to me." When I was a Cubmaster we presented each year with the and only with the parents present. This seemed to go over well with both the Cub Scouts and the parents. As a requirement for the Jamboree all the troop had to view the other movie " A time to tell." I did inform all the parents that we were showing the movie. Had all the troop view it and allowed 20 mins for an open discussion. It was like looking at deer caught in the headlights. The boys just said there and even with a few prompts from me, it was clear that we were going no place.Maybe I was projecting my discomfort.

In one of the Venturing tapes it shows a Lad on the receiving end of some sexual harassment. I have only presented this once or twice and I am not sure if it is portrayed badly or if everyone is uncomfortable. Both times everyone has met this part of the tape with laughter.

I have of course over the years heard Scouts talking about sex. Sometimes I have overheard what might be called a young lad retelling his " Sexual Triumphs." I have always chose not to get involved. Mainly because I don't think that I could or can handle it. Maybe because I thought it was just part of growing up. Or maybe because I thought it was just a Lad running at the mouth.While I am very aware of how much times and things are changing. For example on Thanksgiving we had a house full of young people. While some were watching football on one TV others had MTV on and a program about AIDS. Every ad was for Trojan condoms. These kids(Boys and Girls.) Didn't even blink. It was just the norm. to them. This was a diverse bunch. One of the girls has a Morman Bishop for a Dad. At the last World Jamboree the world Scout Association had free condoms available. The arguement was to prevent STD. I have to admit that if I was the Scoutmaster and a Lad informed me that he was off to pick up a few condoms. I wouldn't know how to handle it or what to say. From my own religious stand point. I don't agree with sex outside marriage and yet even the catholic church is easing up on the use of condoms. I am very aware that the BSA will tell me to direct these Scouts and these sort of problems back to the Scouts parents and his church leaders. Still my problem is with me. I am in an ethical dilemma. While I suppose that I ought to a standpoint and know that deep in my heart that my own policy of "Taking plenty of no notice" is not right. I have to admit to not knowing what to do.

Eamonn

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Gee Eammonn, 65 people have read this and not as yet commented, looks like you arent alone in not wanting to talk about this subject.

 

I view this like religion, if a scout asks a quesiton about sex or religion I would refer them to their parents/guardian or religious leader. I would love at times to do more, but the downside is so huge, its not worth the risk.

[scoutingagain]

Thank you Eamonn for expressing thoughts that I'm sure many of us share, even if it is difficult to discuss them.

 

I confess I would probably take the same approach that OGE describes, as much due to my own lack of comfort discussing the issue with a scout as thinking it would be a more appropriate question for his parents or someone else.

 

But, teenage sex is a significant issue, probably as much an issue as drugs, alchohol or other poor behaviors. Should we be doing more in scouting to help scouts make good choices?

 

I confess, I'd much rather talk to scouts about a new knot, camp location, trip, service project or just about anything else and certainly don't have an answer.

 

 

 

SA

[Laurie]

If a boy were to want to talk to me about sex, I'd listen. I'd advise him to go to his family and/or religious leader, and I'd direct him to that brief portion of the handbook that does address sex. It has been my experience that when a youth is talking about sex--about whether to engage in it or what to do now that he/she has--there are often other issues. Self-esteem, security, peer pressure, and so on. Depending upon what the boy were to want to talk about, the conversation could open the door to encouraging him through praising good choices and through encouraging him to think more about and talk more about making choices. In our Webelos II den, we had a great talk recently. It started as forestry, went into causes of wild fires, then turned to arson. That presented an opportunity to talk about what to do if a boy witnesses, is tempted to engage in, or is in some way related to this type of activity. As a leader, I asked questions, open-ended, to get them to think through their responses. They had varied responses, but they weren't simple responses, and it turned out there weren't easy answers. I thought there would be, but that is because we taught our children a specific response. That night, as I listened, I heard what the boys were hearing in *their* homes. I trust that we all went home having learned more, having learned to better understand how to think through decisions. Sex could be addressed the same way, at least IMO.

[dsteele]

I don't have copies of current editions handy, but I'm sure some on this forum do.

 

What do the Scout Handbook and Scoutmaster's Handbook say about sexual responsibility and other related areas?

 

I'm not sure what they say, but I'm pretty sure they say something.

 

DS

[Laurie]

The Boy Scout Handbook, Eleventh Edition, Page 376 & 377:

 

Sexual Responsibility

 

As you grow into manhood, you are maturing in many remarkable ways. You are becoming stronger, wiser, and better able to make good decisions. Young women you know are also maturing both physically and emotionally. Your relationships with them will become closer and more meaningful, both to you and to them.

 

You are maturing sexually, too. The ability to father a child is a responsibility with powerful consequences in your life and in the lives of others. The choices you make require your very best judgement.

 

It's important to remember that sex is never the most grown-up part of a relationship. It is never a test of manliness. True maturity comes from acting responsibly in the following ways:

 

Your responsibility to Young Women

...more info under this sub-title...

 

Your responsibility as a Future Parent

...more info under this sub-title...

 

Your responsibility to Your Beliefs

...more info under this sub-title...

 

Your responsibility to Yourself

...more info under this sub-title...

 

Final sentences read:

 

If you have questions about growing up, about relationships, or about sex, ask. Talk with your parents, religious leaders, teachers, or Scoutmaster. They want what is best for you. Let them know your concerns.

 

[dsteele]

Thanks, Laurie. I knew someone would come through and I'm not surprised it was you.

 

Does someone else have a Scoutmaster Handbook? I'm sorry to say that I don't have one at home, but I really should.

 

Dave

[Laurie]

Page 132 of the Scoutmaster Handbook addresses this again.

 

It's too much for me to type it all now, but it reiterates some of what is in the Boy Scout Handbook and expands on it some. Some highlights:

 

"Throughout its history, the Boy Scouts of America has endeavored to embrace policies that address matters of sexuality in ways that are good for its members and are in keeping with the organization's core values....

 

When it comes to sexual issues, a Scoutmaster's responsibility is the same as for all other circumstances facing boys--to ensure that the troop is a supportive environment for them both physically and emotionally. Scoutmasters who have established a relationship of trust with troop members and who are willing to listen carefully and compassionately to what boys are saying have the best chance of understanding the Scouts' concerns--sexuality included--and the greatest success in providing them with guidance that will have real meaning....

 

The Scout Oath instructs boys to be morally straight. Abstaining from sex until marriage can bring with it a lifetime of rich, rewarding experiences gained from within a committed relationship and built upon religious values. In addition, refrainining from sexual activity is healthy behavior for young people....

 

Scoutmasters must keep in mind that boys should learn about sex from their parents, guardians, or others empowered by their families to guide them. No Scoutmaster should undertake to teach Scouts, in any formalized manner, about sexual behavior. If a Scout comes to you with questions of a sexual nature, answer them as honestly as you can and, whenever it appropriate, encourage him to share his concerns with his parents or guardian, spiritual leader, or a medical expert...."

 

Hope this helps, and I hope I haven't left out anything truly significant. I highly recommend reading this and the Scout's handbook though, for it really helps to understand what the BSA has to say and what it requires of us. We are also encouraged to go to the professional staff is we aren't sure of how to answer a question.

[Laurie]

You're welcome, Dave. These BSA resources are helpful, and I am happy to share some of them.

[Eamonn]

Thanks Laurie. I am aware of what is in the books. Like you I have learnt a lot from lisening to both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. I really enjoyed some of the things that were part of the Ethics In Action.

I had no idea when I posted that today is World AIDS Day. While I don't or would not have a problem with telling anyone that sex outside of marriage is not the way to go. Even this could be hard as some of the Scouts have parents that are not married. I in fact have a sister the mother of two who has lived with the same chap for many years. He is the father of both little ones, but they have never got married. Then I am not sure if there is a double standard. On one hand we/I am saying that you ought not be doing that and then I'm saying if you are going to do it take precautions.

I have never had a Lad come up to me face to face and ask me anything about sex. Most of what I have heard is stuff that I wasn't supposed to. Am I happy taking no notice? No not really. What if anything should I be doing?The books don't go there. Is this just an area that we don't want to visit?

As a parent I have had the "Talk" with my son. He already knew what all the parts did and that he wasn't found under a gooseberry bush. Our/My main focus was on responsibility. How if he became a parent it would not just be the girl who would bear the brunt of it all.He would have to share the load.

Eamonn

[Laurie]

Eamonn, from all you say here on the boards, it is clear you understand Scouting. I like learning from you.

 

I've a question for you. In a troop setting, does Ethics in Action still take place? Does any type of discussion on issues, character, etc. take place? In the troop my son attends, this does not happen, but that's one troop.

 

As we gather around this high-tech campfire, I wonder if we can all help one another to learn how to encourage boys to make good decisions leading to good decisions in sex--and to do so in keeping with the program. The books are missing out on the "how-tos" of this.

 

To go back to that first post, if a boy were to announce he was heading off to get condoms, that would be the time to gently ask him to consider his decisions carefully, to question if he should handle decisions in this setting the same as if he were at home. Do the consequences change just because the setting does? That would not be a fun talk, but it would be an opportunity.

(This message has been edited by Laurie)

[frank10]

Eamonn,

When it comes to the how and what, I'll leave that to heath class and home. I'd be willing to bet there isn't one in the troop who doesn't know.

 

But you are leading in the most important way. You are teaching them how a man should interact with his child. It is the best you could offer a youngman. If he sees the hours you put in and the support you give then he is one step closer to understanding what a father should be.

 

I'd say don't worry too much about what you say, let them watch what you do. If he can see what it is to be a father maybe he will be informed of when he is ready. Bottem line, your doing great, take a bow.

[dsteele]

Amen to Eamonn and to those who tell him to take a bow.

 

My point was that the books only go so far and that beyond what is written we need to use our own good judgement. It isn't always easy.

 

I'm not one to usually go by scripture (or the book alone) I believe that we as Scout leaders have a responsibility to use our judgement and keep the interests of the youth we serve at the forefront. There are so many on these forums who do that and I find it a joy to participate.

 

DS

[Eamonn]

Again many thanks for your kind words.

I think that we are blessed in these forums to have such a wise and learned group. While I don't agree with everyone and there may be the odd one that I'm sure just goes out of the way to be disagreeable. I feel sure that when the Man Of Steele posts he is on the money re. POR. While at the same time is not out to dot the i's and cross the t's. Bob White, who does at times come across as someone who does not suffer fools really does have a good take on how this game is to be played by the rules.

I enjoy the time that I spend doing whatever it is that I'm doing with and for the BSA. The main reason being that they are good people. This might be due to that in the most part we all share the same values.

Ethics in action was in the back of one of the Cub Scout books. I have never seen anything like it for troops. However I might be wrong. Still I do think that we as adults in Scouting can do very much like you did with your Cub Scouts and the arson situation. For example while not sex. I went to pick OJ up from a crew meeting. I am not a leader of any sort in the crew. I do however know all the members and happen to like them and know almost all of their parents. Somehow someway the topic of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan came up. One Lad had the idea that we ought to just kill them all!! I asked who he meant? He said all of them. I asked why? He said that they might grow up to be terrorists. I asked how he would feel if he was to be punished for things that he might do? He of course said that that wouldn't be fair. And so the conversation went on. For my part I had to be very careful not to allow my "Leftwing Ideals" get in his way. It was his job to work things out.

I'm not so sure if I could manage sex. Again for example. OJ had a birthday party at the club pool. Just 60 of his nearest and dearest friends!! (When I was his age I think I had less then ten.) One Lad came that I didn't know so I asked OJ who he was. He told me his name and went on to tell me that this Lad was so funny and that he was gay. I in no way want to restart the gay debate. However to OJ this 15 year old who had made his mind up to be gay was all fine and dandy. The Lad was a real nice kid and seemed to spend more time with the girls at the party then the rest of the guys. I just don't know how or when a young boy decides that he is gay. Then this week OJ, is off to a school dance. He wants an extension to his curfew. I ask about times and places and who is going he tells me so and so and someone and the girl that he is engaged to. I show my disapproval and he informs me that they already have a baby. It is all matter of fact to him. I have to admit to being shocked.

I would really like if we could find a way of helping our members make good choices in this area. While not going outside of what the books say.

Eamonn

[dsteele]

Eamonn summed up exactly what I'm trying to do with my participation on these forums, and even what I'm trying to do with my career when he said:

 

"I feel sure that when the Man Of Steele posts he is on the money re. POR. While at the same time is not out to dot the i's and cross the t's. "

 

If I'm interpreting Eamonn correctly, he is saying that I'm on the money when it comes to what we're trying to do and not necessarily worried about how we go about it. Please -- Eamonn -- feel free to correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth.

 

In short, I understand if a unit leader is uncomfortable talking about sex with a Scout. If you are, please feel free to expain that to the Scout and refer them to their parent or religious leader. In no way do I feel a Scout Leader should provide any instruction other than what is outlined in the handbooks.

 

It is, after all, an uncomfortable topic. And it is a very private topic. It is best left up to those more qualified to handle it when it comes to going beyond the basics of responsibility as lined out in the handbooks.

 

In the meantime, if you'd like a professional's view of the why of something and how to accomplish something for the sake of the youth we serve, please feel free to come to me.

 

If you want chapter and verse, I'm probably the wrong guy to ask.

 

DS