Comparison of top executive salaries at BSA, GSUSA, AHG, and a rant....

[qwazse]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

That's much different than our units. Most I find are lead by blue-collar folks ... sometimes the college grad who still lives with his/her folks and never found a career track. The most efficient of those tend to be ex-military.

 

Regardless, very few have experience with non-profits. Partly this has to do with religion. Because of reduced participation in organized religion. Fewer adults have sat on church boards. My wife and I did right out of college. That enabled us to volunteer "side-by-side" with older folks who knew a thing or two about half-million dollar budgets long before we were scouters. When I was a scout, all of my committee (blue or white collar) were volunteers on boards for church, veterans organizations, college alumni associations, etc ... didn't take much for them to translate what they learned there to what our our troop needed. In my boys' troop, a minority of our committee have the same level of experience.

[tnff]

Perhaps I shouldn't talk, but right now I volunteer for Scouts & Cubs. In our troop we have parents on committee who are also AHG leaders. In cubs one is also a GS leader. Roundtable and district have GS and AHG leaders there as well and we all try to share among each other to help out where we can. Heck the GS leader just sold us all cookies at the meeting. There are a limited number of adults willing to volunteer their time to any youth group so it's not surprising it will be the same ones. As well as coaching soccer, and baseball, ...

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Yep, all parent volunteers here too.

 

We never had to "import professionals" from council, or elsewhere, to volunteer with the units. We also never kept track of (or cared) if the volunteers were blue, or white, collared.

 

Everyone has their own strengths (and weaknesses). We simply tried to use each volunteer where they were needed the most.

 

As for that bilge about teachers, blue collar workers (business owners?), and your average parent, not having a brain for budgeting, or anything financial, that is just, well, bilge. An/or rampant snobbery and ego.

 

If you can keep a family running in the black, with all bills paid, then you can manage to budget, forecast, and plan finances.

 

 

[DuctTape]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

Personally, I think the one of the biggest problems is the BSA is trying to be to businesslike. The issues cited which require so much bookkeeping, paperwork, forms up the wazoo, MBA-style training and the large overhead of people at council/national are directly related to each other.

 

Us teachers, blue collar workers, etc... can easily handle what is necessary to help the boys run a troop. The problem is too much stuff is being sent down which becomes an obstacle in helping the boys seek adventure.

 

The problem is BSA shouldn't be a business, nor run with a business model. Some basic accounting, yes. But beyond that, get them out of the conference rooms, take away the "workbooks", and let the boys out and have adventures in the woods, water and fields using the Scouting model.

 

edit: Final comment. A 3.6M budget isn't really that much and doesn't require paying someone a quarter million $ or more to manage it. School superintendents get paid less than $200K and they have an operating budget in near $100 million. I have run spreadsheets for small organizations tracking $250k in my spare time without compensation.

[Pack18Alex]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

A well run business oriented Committee is extremely helpful. That's NOT what you want for a Scout Master, that IS what you want for a committee chair.

 

One of my Den Leaders was SUPER AWESOME with the boys, but horrible at record keeping and tracking. One of the moms was an accountant, she stepped up as Assistant Den Leader, set up tracking spreadsheets, and organizing outings. She'd have been a HORRIBLE Den Leader, but turned the Den Around tracking achievements.

 

I'd kill for a few teacher/blue collar types for my direct line scout leaders. All of our den leaders are nervous around tools, pocket knives, etc. Those volunteers are CRITICAL for the boys running their program, because they are comfortable with the activities.

 

I was partnered with a pre school teacher/den leader @ CSDC, she taught me everything I know about running a good Den, and it's been HUGE. She gets the boys excited in a way I never knew how.

 

However, sitting on an event committee with her and I see her drowning in the administrative side. I volunteered for the committee to manage all that, but she just isn't comfortable with sending information to me to take care of what needs to be taken care of.

 

Our Treasurer works in the private sector, but spend a few years running finance for a mid-sized non-profit ($8M in revenue). She set up easy to use systems for tracking, we see how the budget shifts with fundraising, etc.

 

Our Pack Committee built some spreadsheets for tracking Popcorn, Camp Cards, etc. Nothing overly fancy, but a HUGE difference in terms of accountability and knowing what is going on. As a result, we've been able to up our targets by 4x because we know what's going on, we don't get stuck with inventory, and we know who has what.

 

That doesn't teach a Scout Lashings, but it let us buy/fix up a scout trailer (after trying for 4 years) and a real camp kitchen. Those things took money and organization. Prior to a real committee forming, den leaders funded things out of pocket, were going broke, and the pack didn't own anything to bring on campouts.

 

There is a reason that we have these tools in business, they work. The boys should never deal with them, your front line scouter personnel should never deal with them, but those tools are valuable for keeping a well funded program running year round.

[Pack18Alex]

Yep, all parent volunteers here too.

 

We never had to "import professionals" from council, or elsewhere, to volunteer with the units. We also never kept track of (or cared) if the volunteers were blue, or white, collared.

 

Everyone has their own strengths (and weaknesses). We simply tried to use each volunteer where they were needed the most.

 

As for that bilge about teachers, blue collar workers (business owners?), and your average parent, not having a brain for budgeting, or anything financial, that is just, well, bilge. An/or rampant snobbery and ego.

 

If you can keep a family running in the black, with all bills paid, then you can manage to budget, forecast, and plan finances.

 

Sorry, it wasn't intended to be snobbery. It was meant to reflect the skill set volunteers bring.

 

A pack near me has a leader who is a carpenter. He's taught the boys AMAZING woodworking skills, built amazing gateways, etc., because he has the skills to do it and the desire to train them.

 

Another few leaders I know are teachers, they are great at inspiring the youth and managing the process, they are also trained to do it.

 

Nothing about aptitude, all about skills. We have two MBAs, a CPA, and Financial Analyst on our Pack Committee. Our finances run smoothly, and the direct contact leaders don't have to worry about it.

[Pack18Alex]

Sorry if I appeared to be a snob, it wasn't meant that way.

 

From my work at the district level, more of our units fail because of financial collapse and leadership collapse than from parents unable to teach the boys Scout Skills.

 

Building and training leadership amongst adults, and managing finances, are things taught in business school. Having someone with that background is extremely helpful for managing that side of the Unit.

 

Can you get by without it, absolutely. But it helps to run a program if you know what's going on financially.

[perdidochas]

Perhaps I shouldn't talk, but right now I volunteer for Scouts & Cubs. In our troop we have parents on committee who are also AHG leaders. In cubs one is also a GS leader. Roundtable and district have GS and AHG leaders there as well and we all try to share among each other to help out where we can. Heck the GS leader just sold us all cookies at the meeting. There are a limited number of adults willing to volunteer their time to any youth group so it's not surprising it will be the same ones. As well as coaching soccer, and baseball, ...

 

As an ASM, and a former Cub Scout Den Leader and soccer coach, I resemble that remark. Most of our leadership is similar.

[DuctTape]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

My point was if you need MBA's and accountants on your committee, then perhaps the program itself is not focusing on the boys and scouting. It doesn't take an advanced degree in accounting to keep a basic spreadsheet for scouts. If it does, then I question whether the focus of the pack, or troop is on Scouting for Boys or whether it is scouting for adults.

[Pack18Alex]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

"My point was if you need MBA's and accountants on your committee, then perhaps the program itself is not focusing on the boys and scouting"

 

Maybe. Alternatively, having MBAs and Accountants on my committee means that our organization is able to plan and execute more "big events" that the boys love. We ended up with 5 Campouts this year (planned 7, two were council level one that got canceled). Last year, without a professional quality committee, we were lucky to get 3 off.

 

Our Troop doesn't have the business heavy committee, the Pack camps more than the troop.

 

Before we were able to organize our committee, the boys activities were lame, because there was no budget, no ability to fund supplies, etc. The activities were more adult-led in prior years because when you have no money and no time, it's easier for the adults to do things than teach the boys to do it. This was our first time earning the Summertime Activity Award in several years (since the Pack was founding in the Spring it's first year).

 

Your mileage may vary, of course. Some of it is also my parent body, I have parents NOT comfortable with any degree of scout craft that now have the ability to get involved organizing events.

 

But I'm relatively new at this. I don't know what the BSA paperwork level was like 15 years ago, maybe it was WAY LESS. I do know that our boys are earning more awards, doing more activities, having more gear to actually have real meals at campouts, etc., because of our strong committee that is able to fund things and organize them. BSA also has a lot of paperwork, leaders that are stronger at paperwork are able to arrange events for the boys to earn more awards.

[DuctTape]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

I hear what you are saying. I suppose my gripe is the need for "big events' and the focus on awards etc... Scouting IMO should be simpler, focused on the boys spirit of adventure. the planning, organizing, etc... should be borne by them. I am sure the boys like the Big Event, but was it theirs? did they plan it? Organize it? Of course young boys cannot do this, but as they plan their smaller events they learn and the next adventure will be better. It is how they grow. I suppose we are just looking at the adults role from different angles. I view the adults role to help the boys accomplish their plans, with advice but not do the work for them. If they ask me to do something specific, of course I will lend a hand. Like if they need me to send in paperwork to secure a spot at Philmont.

[Pack18Alex]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

DuctTape, remember, Cub Scout is family oriented. If we have 20 Cubs attending an event (as opposed to a meeting), that means 80 people there. Feeding 80 people is no trivial task, and not entirely reasonable to ask 8 year olds to do.

 

Also, a quick caveat for my pack, we're a Jewish Unit chartered to a Synagogue. That means that all food must be Kosher, the Jewish Sabbath must be observed, etc. Since most Council/District events take place on Saturday, if we want to participate, we're camping for the weekend.

 

Pinewood Derby: of my 25 cub scouts, maybe 3 have dads who have ANY tools, so we have to do all the construction at meeting times.

 

Community Events: we participate in Jewish community functions, etc., those need to be coordinated by adults.

 

We signed up to do BSA Adopt-a-School, that's 4 small service projects during the year, someone has to do it.

 

We aim to do 3 meetings (2 den, 1 pack), 1 Sunday or Weekend event a month. I think that that's pretty good for a Cub Scout Pack. But that still means 9 things to plan that go beyond a weekly meeting for 8 boys.

 

I think you're also coming across it from the Boy Scout side, not the Cub Scout side.

 

But on the Boy Scout side, the need for committee planning is very serious. Our Troop committee chair has to plan around multiple different school schedules (non-denominational Jewish, Orthodox Jewish, and secular public schools), Jewish and secular holidays, manage Kosher food to the standards that all families are comfortable, etc. In addition, middle and high school run later in the day here, and in the Winter, the Sabbath can start just a few hours later.

 

The boys are out having fun, but the big events that are adult planned are also critical for our raising our profile and recruiting. Cub Scouts are ALWAYS recruiting.

 

It also means getting someone to Round Table, Council Programming meetings, District Committee Meetings, planning meetings, etc., if for no other reason than to make sure that Council/District are aware of holidays they've never heard of and how it impacts our Unit.

 

We do all this so that the boys can have a program that exists. Our units are only 4 years old, we don't have 30 years of gear/projects in storage, everything is getting done by the seat of our pants. It's also hard to get leaders trained because most of the training is 1 day events on Saturdays, so we have to arrange our own Sunday training, plus publicize it to the District/Council so enough people attend to be viable since our Unit isn't that big.

 

These are all things that require an active committee, and they all benefit the program for the boys.

 

Cub Scouts LOVE getting bling and recognition. Take that away, and we don't retain the boys. Our retention rate is WAY higher now that we hand out more bling, but bling costs money, and money requires planning.

 

Retention tells me if the boys are liking the program. But I'm a by the numbers guy, so I know if the boys want more, they come back for more.

[DuctTape]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

You are correct, I am coming from a Boy Scout direction. However, I still don't think it takes an MBA to handle what you describe as what you want for your pack, nor do I believe that bling and expensive big events are the only way to recruit and retain. One of the problems with going big, is the need to go bigger the next time. Children need recognition, but one must be careful to not externalize the reward. When the reward or recognition becomes greater than the accomplishment itself, it defeats its purpose. Not saying this is happening in your pack. Just something I have seen before and mentioning it for awareness. It is obvious you are successful with your pack by playing to your strengths. As you said, you are a by the numbers guy and like the business model. Others are just as successful utilizing completely different strategies; non-business models. It's kind of like the saying, If you only have a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[Pack18Alex]

The BSA top salaries don't seem that high to me. They seem reasonable for people running organizations of that size. I mean, our local Council Budget is 3.6M, I don't see how you could have an executive overseeing that competently without paying $200-$400K/year. Now, the level of competence is another question.

 

National puts out antiquated tools, so council is administratively heavy to administer them, that isn't helpful. But you're delivering a semi-consistent program to millions of youth with hundreds of thousands of active direct line volunteers, that requires some serious management talent.

 

One of the areas council should get better on, IMO, is providing managerial help to Scouting Units. Most Units are filled with gung-ho leaders, but most are teachers with the occasional other white collar professional thrown in. In the more "youth at risk areas" we have a lot of blue collar business owners as long time volunteers.

 

One thing lacking is the support/tools for running the Scouting Unit like a small business. Things like budgeting, forecasting, planning, etc., those are areas that most Units are very weak on and areas that professional talent could really help. Instead I see Council unable to adequately administer their business and unable to help Units grow/prosper.

 

I see pre-school teachers as Committee Chairs, and other things. My Unit happens to have a lot of management personnel in the leadership, but nobody else in our District does. Trying to help run an event had me wanting to cry, people not aware of how to run a budget or use a budget, how to encumber expenses, reimbursements, etc. The fact that we are organized through 501©3 Churches makes the finances get swept under the rug, which may prevent tax problems, but avoids running efficiently.

 

That said, you need crisis response teams, when volunteers like GeorgiaMom go off half cocked without knowing what they're talking about and terrifying charter organizations with what needs to be done.

 

When she posted her non-sense about tax issues (she didn't even ask the right person, Tax CPAs fill out forms, they don't answer tax law questions, she asked a CPA a tax law question and got an incorrect answer, because she asked the wrong question), I asked her what return the Pack wasn't allegedly filing that they were supposed to, and she deleted the thread, but clearly thinks she is still right.

 

Council/National have too many people, too many senior people, and too high of a cost structure, not uncommon for older established companies. They need to go through a massive restructure/downsizing, but they aren't enriching themselves at the public's expense.

Of course, you fight a war with the army you have, not the one you want.

 

We have management personal, no skilled tradesman. It had advantages, but a ton of drawbacks.

 

Of the 50 or so packs in my district, the only one with this setup is mine. So when I'm at Roundtable and they are discussing things and gloss over the business side, I think it's a disservice.

 

If my district is typical, 2% management side, 98% teachers and tradesmen.

 

Talking to other leaders, they are all drowning on the paperwork side, so I think that BSA would do well to have professionals help on the paperwork side.

 

You are right, there is too much paperwork. But until national reduces it, I'd like to see council help units along, since in general,

Paperwork is not their strength.

 

My pack of pencil pushers can handle it, the rest are drowning.