Ownership Of The Scout Oath.

[Eamonn]

In another thread someone posted: "I think that we would have a fairly hard time looking upon the boy as living the Oath and Law."

A couple of things come to my mind. I have always thought that the Oath was an individual thing. This is made obvious when it is stated "...I will do my best..." While there may be a need for the occasional or special discussion to help improve the meaning or understanding of the Scout Oath and Law I fail to see that other then too further the mission of the BSA why we looking upon a boy as living the Scout Oath and Law.

After all it is his honor and his best.

So a boy may have done something that is wrong. When I look at why we do what we do I see that we are here to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetime. If all the youth were already making ethical choices all the time would there still be a need for the BSA? If this was the case and all the youth were making ethical choices all the time would there be a need for the Oath and Law?

Eamonn

[scoutldr]

One thing I like about this forum is that it makes me reach WAYYYY down deep and examine my own values and reasons for doing "this Scouting stuff."

 

To paraphrase my Pastor..."we are not a country club for saints...we are a hospital for sinners." If one of our Scout brothers (or sisters) proves not to be so perfect, it is not for us to judge and levy a penalty. But we should redouble our efforts and look at where we are failing. We cannot cure world hunger, nor make up for the lack of proper parenting, but we should "do our best" to "help other people at all times", regardless of their sins or weaknesses. To examine another aspect of the Scout Oath, I was a fat, nerdy 11 year old...certainly not what one would call "physically fit". But I joined scouting and had the time of my life...and at age 49, and countless camping trips, summer camps, and 50 milers later am still active. I'm sure glad that no self-righteous adult took one look at my fat self and turned me away because he was trying to "protect" his vision of the Scout Oath and Law.

[evmori]

"On my honor I will do my best"

 

To me this says "I promise to do my best". Referrering to the other thread, how is impregnating a girl "promising to do your best"?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

[NeilLup]

Hello Ev,

 

I erased several flippant responses I wrote to your question before posting this.

 

The young woman is now impregnated. The young man will be a father. Nothing we can do will change those facts.

 

The young man now has an incredible challenge before him to "do his best." Many, many men and women fail in that challenge as parents. Perhaps we, in Scouting, can help him to meet that challenge if he is willing to accept the challenge and accept our help.

 

The alternative would appear to be a shunning or else a broken sword ceremony like at the beginning of the old TV program "Branded" where the boy is formally expelled from the Troop. It is hard for me to see how that is of benefit to anybody.

 

Have a great Thanksgiving.

[evmori]

Yes he does need the support of Scouting. But he is in no way a role model for other Scouts to follow.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

Happy Thanksgiving

[NeilLup]

Hello Ev,

 

I respectfully suggest that it may be 20 years or more before be can say whether he was a role model or not.

 

If you mean that we should not encourage other boys to impregnate their girl friends, I agree, of course.

 

On the other hand, if we should encourage them that, finding themselves in a difficult situation, they handle it with responsibility, dignity and in accordance with the Scout Oath and Law, then he might be an excellent role model.

 

And WE are supposed to be role models too. One trend which I greatly deplore in society over the last 20-30 years is the "Throw the bums out!" attitude toward disagreement, difference in political or personal philosophy or lifestyle or mistakes in one's actions or character. WE are communicating to the other Scouts "You better be perfect. If you make a serious mistake, you're gone. Better conceal it, try to bury it or blame it on somebody else." I am much more comfortable if WE present the attitude "If you make a mistake, we'll try to help you do better the next time. If you want to and you really try."

 

I don't think that the Scouts in a Troop need to see an older boy expelled to know that they shouldn't have sex or that we disapprove of it.

[NeilLup]

(This message has been edited by NeilLup)

[Eamonn]

Ed I might or might not agree with you. But my point is that what we think is up to us, it does not give us the right to set oursleves up as judge and jury.

While I happen to be of the credence that does not agree with sex outside of marriage. This is one of my values. While it might be a little sanctimonious of me I tend to think that I live my life using my values as my benchmark.

Have there been times when I have done things that I am not proud of, things that don't concur even with my own set of values and ethics. Sad to say the answer is yes. But one of the benefits of aging is that being my own man is a lot easier to manage. I no longer feel the pressure from my peers, I am less effected by the media.

Even if we look in the Bible we will find a lot of men and women who had made mistakes only to change and join the winning team.

Our role in Scouting is to serve the youth. Sad to say they will make mistakes and bad choices. At times they will have to pay the consequences for these. If we go about looking at these mistakes as being the work of a bad kid we are not looking at the opportunity that we have to educate and improve things.

I have no idea of the events that led up to this Lad and the girl having unprotetcted sex.

Did the girl tell him that she was taking birth control pills? Did they try using a method that just didn't work? Or did a heavy petting session just get out of hand? Did the condom tear? Mybe what they were doing was not right but maybe he was doing his best not to be part of an unplanned pregnancy.

I don't know. I will bet that there is a boy who is having a very hard time. Who feels that the entire world is against him and along with feelings of shame the future is not looking that bright. His membership in Scouting is something that he and his parents will have to work out. He might want to take a look at the DO My Best line and reexamine where he is coming from and where he is going. But at the end of the day it is up to him.It is his Oath.

Eamonn

[ozemu]

Heck Ed you make it sound like the Artificial Insemination bloke just made a mistake in the stockyard. She isnt a cow. Nor was she raped it seems. They made love - and they misjudged a few things.

 

As for being an example I think the Scouts will discriminate more than maybe you suggest. What he does now is going to be planned. What he did then was an emotional (and therefore unpremeditated) error.

 

What is Thanksgiving?

[evmori]

ozemu,

Thanksgiving is a USA holiday. We celebrate when the pilgrims & indians made peace in 1621. We eat turkey, stuffing & mashed potatoes. Great food!

 

The point I was trying to make & did so very poorly was that this boy knew what could happen when he has sex. And he was having sex outside of marriage which some consider a sin. And these two were very young so there might even been laws broken. So I don't think this boy should be looked on as a role model by his fellow Scouts. I don't think the Troop sould sweep it under the table. It needs to be dealt with. I'm not saying kick the kid out. What I am saying is he should not be in a leadership role in the Troop.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Thanks eamonn, I you took the pat I thought you would. the Oath is indeed a personal pledge to yourself. everyone makes mistakes. I am hopeful that scouting has kept innumeral young people from making this type of mistake, but again we are only human. I think it is reasonable to ask a scout to be an example to others of values he believes in , but these are chidren. The reason scoutng exists is because this is a difficult thing to do, even for most adults.

 

I don't feel that my role is to judge kids, but to help in their development in a positive manner as best I can, using the methods of scouting.

 

Bob White

 

 

[scoutldr]

"We celebrate when the pilgrims & indians made peace in 1621."

 

I don't think that's quite how the Native Americans remember it.

[Fat Old Guy]

"I don't think that's quite how the Native Americans remember it."

 

Why is that no one cries about the displaced Picts or about the Gauls who were pillaged by the Scandnavians. What about the Rus who ravaged the land? How about the countless Arab tribes that were slaughtered by other Arabs looking for water? The Persians stormed all over the place, enslaving and killing people. The Mongols did the same.

 

When it comes right down to it, the Indians should consider themselves lucky that they weren't wiped out.

[dsteele]

So . . . anyway, back to that Scout Oath and Law thing . . .

 

Unless the individual uttering them takes them to heart and does his best to live them they are nothing but a bunch of nice words strung together.

 

Taken to heart they make an individual strong and the community a better place.

 

DS

[NJCubScouter]

FOG says:

 

Why is that no one cries about the displaced Picts or about the Gauls who were pillaged by the Scandnavians. What about the Rus who ravaged the land? How about the countless Arab tribes that were slaughtered by other Arabs looking for water? The Persians stormed all over the place, enslaving and killing people. The Mongols did the same.

 

Why? Maybe it's because we hold ourselves, as a nation, to a higher and more principled standard than did the ancient and medieval conquerors of whom you speak -- and some modern-day marauding nations as well. The treatment of the Native Americans by the U.S. Government fails our own standards for ourselves. Even though my own ancestors were still getting massacred and chased around Eastern Europe at the time that most of this was going on, I don't consider this part our "national legacy" to be a great point of pride.