Just What Would It Take...

[dsteele]

Two situations with different approval processes seem to have bled together here.

 

The first is the removal of a Scout from a Troop. This is a different matter than the removal of a Scout from membership in the Boy Scouts of America, period. One is not the same as the other, and the former is far less severe than the latter.

 

To clarify, we need to look at the approval process of a youth application and the resulting charter agreement. Who signs where?

 

On the youth application the parent signs, giving permission for the son to join the Boy Scouts of America. The Scoutmaster signs indicating approval of the young man into the unit.

 

In Scouting, the person who approves the application is the person that can remove the approval. If the Scoutmaster decides that the boy should no longer be a Scout in the troop, the scoutmaster can remove the boy from the troop. He/She would be unwise to do so without the backing of the Committee Chair and Chartered Partner (who approve the Scoutmaster,) but they could do it.

 

There are no hard and fast rules about how and when to ask a Scout to leave a troop. A great deal of discretion is left open to the troop leadership (with the pressure on the Scoutmaster) to allow for individual differences -- case, by case. This forum seems to struggle with that concept, but it's there.

 

The same applies to removal of adult leaders.

 

If and when a youth is asked to leave a troop, please relay all facts to your District Executive or council service center. If you do not do so, the boy may well join another troop. Sometimes the kid does better in the new unit, sometimes he does not. If your DE is aware of the facts, he/she can alert the new unit leader of the past problems and give them a leg up in dealing with them.

 

If the youth presents a danger to other youth through Scouting, the DE will relate that to the Scout Executive who may chose to revoke membership in the BSA for the youth. The pressure is off unit volunteers in those cases, and goes where it belongs -- to the Scout Executive.

 

To answer the question -- just what would it take . . . -- the answer varies according to the case. Removal from the unit level is different from removal from the BSA. Removal from the unit level can be mild, can be major. Removal from the BSA is a serious matter that is given much consideration by all, including and ending with the national council (the brunt born by the Scout Executive) and doesn't happen very often.

 

DS

[Eamonn]

While I am not as up on the rules and regulations as some of the other wise people.

I can't help thinking of the parable of the Prodigal Son.

Eamonn

[eisely]

DSteele,

 

That is very helpful. It also is quite a different take on "removal" than has come up before in this forum. I was left with the impression that if the chartered organization kicked you out, that was it. If I understand you correctly, a youth/adult is removed from the unit, and has the option of seeking a new affiliation with a different unit. Is that correct?

 

If no new unit takes such a person, their membership with BSA would expire completely at the end of the charter year for the unit that did the removing. Unless of course, such a person gets onto somebody else's roster in the meantime. Am I getting that correctly?

[Fat Old Guy]

Bob White said, " No other persons have the authority to make this decision within the unit."

 

but dsteele said, " If the Scoutmaster decides that the boy should no longer be a Scout in the troop, the scoutmaster can remove the boy from the troop."

 

Obviously, Bob White doesn't understand the Boy Scouts and is operating on the fringes, not following the rules, even making them up as he goes along.(This message has been edited by Fat Old Guy)

[Fat Old Guy]

"I can't help thinking of the parable of the Prodigal Son."

 

The Prodigal Son didn't try to strangle his brothers or set a tent on fire. He just went away for awhile to play soccer and be in the marching band.

[evmori]

dsteele,

Thanks for clearing that up. That's what I thought the procedure was for removing Scouts & adults.

 

Have a great Thanksgiving!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[KoreaScouter]

Check the G2SS, "Youth Behavior Guidelines", page 6, Unit Responsibilities. It says in part:

 

- "The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit."

 

- "If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit."

 

What sorts of infractions could result in revocation? That's in the G2SS, too; same page. "Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit."

 

This tells me units can revoke youth membership. I'd certainly make sure the CO's notified, but don't see them having veto authority. Adult membership is different, since the CO approves unit leaders.

 

KS

[Bob White]

The committee guide book goes a little further. It says that a SM needs to bring behavior problems to the committee where the committee, parents or guardians, scout and scoutmaster work together to solve the problem.

 

It also stresses that every effort must be made to keep the boy in the program, and that removal from the unit (not the program) is the last thing the committee should do.

 

This seems to different from both what I wrote and what DSteele wrote (and that doesn't happen very often). I have asked DS to recheck this to see if we can get a more definitive answer.

 

Bob White

[frank10]

K.S. -

"What sorts of infractions could result in revocation? That's in the G2SS, too; same page. "Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit." "

 

Well that just about covers every boy I've ever met. (Grin)

[dsteele]

I'm glad that Bob White and I check sources on those infrequent occasions when we disagree. Bob is correct, as is KoreaScouter that the scoutmaster needs to take the matter to the unit committee and get the committee behind the decision. That's a better way than what I described initially, which would leave the Scoutmaster alone in a storm.

 

Removal from the unit, however, does not prevent the boy from joining another troop. Eisely is correct. If no other troop will take the kid, his registration will expire at the end of his former unit's current charter.

 

If the council formally revokes his membership in the BSA there is an appeal process the individual may follow and once those options are exhausted, future registration in the BSA will be denied by national.

 

DS

[NWScouter]

BW,

I don't ever remember every reading anywhere a statement on removal of a scout in the BSA literature. I am wondering if you would give a citation for your last post.

I know on the application the only signature beside the parent's that is needed is the unit leader for approval.

 

[NWScouter]

I can't seem to edit from work. Please disregard my perious post. I read to bottom of the first page and thought I was at the end of the post on the topic. My question was answeared.

[NJCubScouter]

Having just read this entire thread in one shot, my head is spinning from trying to figure out which answers have been withdrawn, which are in question, and which are still "in effect."

 

Bob, even if you had been correct that only the IH/CR can remove a boy from a unit, I would still disagree with your implication that this is not a subject that unit leaders (SM/SA/CC/MC) should concern themselves with. A good decision-maker, particularly one who is some levels "away" from a situation or who does not have the opportunity to observe it personally, will always ask those who are "closer" for their recommendation. That doesn't always mean that the recommendation will be accepted. However, I suspect that if one looked at every recommendation made by unit leaders to CO's, and took a percentage of those that were accepted, I suspect the percentage would be a large majority. So, just because one does not have "authority" to make a decision does not mean one is not part of the decision-making process.