Membership Continues Decline

[nextgenscouter1]

I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

[ghjim]

So after 39% voted against the membership changes, we see only a 6% drop in membership? Sounds encouraging to me.

[Scouter99]

I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

There's a good history of homosexual activism in youth groups and other institutions in the book Toward Stonewall here: http://books.google.com/books?id=0qjwZeKNyh4C&lpg=PP1&dq=toward%20stonewall&pg=PA153#v=onepage&q=toward%20stonewall&f=false

[Sentinel947]

I think competing activities and demographics has more to do with it than The changes to the program in the 60s or allowing gays. Youth sport participation numbers are falling too.

 

If not sports (as youth sport participation numbers are falling), what are the competing activities? Personally, I think it's that Scouting isnt competing successfully with video games and Facebook/Instagram/etc. The other is that while the number of kids playing a sport may be going down, the level of their playing the sport has gone up--it's not uncommon around here for boys to play baseball in both the fall and spring. I wonder how their participation in baseball is measured?

 

We need to get rid of silly rules in G2SS, and embrace the outdoors as much as possible. I don't think the new crop of digital subject area merit badges are going to help.

Yup. I've been encouraging the PLC to expand where they camp. Newer trips have a higher rate of participation.

[desertrat77]

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

 

[Rick_in_CA]

I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

Scouter99: You have bought this up before, but I don't understand your point. Yes there are homosexuals that are attracted to youth, and some of them end up as teachers in schools, and some end up in youth groups. The very same can be said about heterosexuals, only there a lot more of them.

 

However if you are implying that homosexual = pedophile, then you are wrong. And that isn't what that chapter of Toward Stonewall says.

[Scouter99]

I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

Rick, if you're familiar with my knowledge in the area, then you will also recall that I have very plainly said that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same. The fact is that from the moment homosexuals began to become organized, they did not "end up in youth groups" they organized around youth groups to effect their vision.

Their attraction to pubescent boys is not, by definition, pedophilia, it is simply homosexuality. And every Ineligibility File that involves a scout over the age of 12 is not a file about pedophilia, but a file about a homosexual, from the troop in Louisiana founded by a group of gay men specifically to get access to young men to the one-off crimes of opportunity.

Every movement tries to capture youth, this is the only one whose end is to have sex with them.

[DigitalScout]

I think a big part of the decline in participation in Boy Scouts and other activities is the increased opportunity costs of participation.

 

Kids today are chauffeured everywhere, they don’t travel on their own. Look at any elementary school today, where are the bicycle racks? When I was a kid, my school had huge bicycle racks that held hundreds of bicycles everyday. Why? Because we rode our bikes or walked to school. That very same elementary school no-longer has those racks because the kids are driven to and from school by their parents. The line of urban assault vehicles (SUVs) waiting to pick up their kids at the end of the day stretches for blocks. Same thing for little league, boy scouts, etc. - we usually got there under our own power (unless it was across town). I am amazed at how much time parents today spend shuttling their kids around. In our cub pack we have lost several boys over transportation issues.

 

Many extracurricular activities today require complete commitment. Want to be a cheerleader at your high school? You have to attend a summer camp just to be allowed to try out. Want to play soccer? Be prepared for a year round activity. It used to be if you wanted to do multiple activities, it wasn’t that hard. Now many groups expect you to pick just one and spend all you time with them.

 

One thing I have observed that is probably related to the transportation thing, is that the circle of friends that kids have today tend to be much more geographically distributed. When I was a kid, I could walk or ride my bicycle to the house of virtually every one of my friends. We all lived in the same neighborhood and went to the same schools. Now with most of the children of my friends, that isn’t true. One of the reasons they have to be chauffeured to “play dates†instead of simply getting together with their friends under their own power.

The chauffeuring has a lot do to with being a helicopter parent as well. Many parents are very fearful of letting their children out of their sight. Other families think I'm crazy because I let my kids ride their bikes to school and around the neighborhood. The are certain that my kids will be hit by a car, kidnapped, etc.

[nextgenscouter1]

I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

Very interesting, while I agree that if a man is looking to molest a boy he might join BSA. Scouter 99 your right the proper term wouldn't be a pedophilia but rather a Ephebophilia or an Hebephilia, either way if you are attracted to young boys you will find a way to get to them through BSA or a church group or sports.

[perdidochas]

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

Exactly. I'm not against STEM--I'm a former science teacher, who's son wants to be an engineer--but STEM isn't going to sell scouting. Adventures are. The thing is the G2SS needs to find a way to promote safety without squelching adventure. It's good at promoting safety, but it also squelches adventure.

[Horizon]

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

Bingo. My biggest recruiting campout for middle schoolers is coming up - we go shooting. A day of shotgun, a day of rifle (with big bore for Venture aged youth). Gotta join to come along. We follow it up with some skiing (in the past - California skiing is terrible this year). Then we show them summer camp on Catalina Island.

 

Amazing how many kids I get from that. The entire gay issue has been a distraction. For parents scared of gays, I talk to them about how we handle YPT and risk. For parents on the other side, I talk to them about how we really don't care and it just isn't an issue. Once that conversation is done, we move on and get the kids camping and hiking.

[Huzzar]

I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

It doesn't matter if you can't understand other people's views or you find them funny. The issue for the BSA is do they continue down the path they've taken.

 

The new membership rules clearly haven't led to a stabilization or increase in membership. No surprise to me, there never was an army of gay boys that would join Scouts if only they didn't have to lie about their sexuality.

 

A few of us think Gates has been signed-on to push the same change for adults. Is that still on the cards now we know, or at least strongly suspect, that just changing for youth has caused membership to decline further?

 

For me, if BSA leadership really thinks that's the way they should go, then just get on with it so we can see for certain what the impact will be.

 

BTW, Sandusky has no biological children. All 6 were adopted and at least one has said he was molested by dear old dad. Just because he says he's hetero don't make it so, The man's a gay pedo.

[Brewmeister]

On the other hand the number of Eagles keeps increasing…hmmmm

[Huzzar]

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

Yep, agree with the STEM stuff. Just turns Scouts into weekend school and it's based on the fiction that the USA was deficient in some respect. The reality is that STEM jobs are going to China and India because those people work for peanuts and can be treated like dirt by big business.

[nextgenscouter1]

Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.