Scout denied Eagle conference

[Myboy]

My son has been in scouts for almost 12 years starting as a tiger cub. He has been in two boy scout troops and is now trying to get eagle. He has completed all the requirements for eagle: 6 months of leadership, 40 merit badges, signed off service project. He is a senior in high school and has 6 months until his 18th birthday. He has been trying for 4 months to get his eagle conference scheduled with his scoutmaster and the scoutmaster keeps delaying things, giving him more things to do each time he asks for a conference. In fact he told my son "you're a good kid, I'm just giving you a hard time." He then wanted a list of activities he has done with the troop since becoming a life scout 2 years ago. My son gave this to him, but he through it down, saying "this is a joke". When my son came to the car after the meeting he told me the scoutmaster said he's not worthy to be an eagle scout. My son was devastated! The scoutmaster wants him to continue with the troop for the next 6 months going on campouts every month and being active. He is a senior in high school and does not have the time to devote to scouting, but he has completed all the requirements he needs for eagle. I'm frustrated, and feel my kid is being treated cruelly. What should I do?

[Tim in NJ]

Contact your District or Council Advancement Chair. There is a process in place specifically for this scenario which will trigger the Eagle Board of Review even without the final Scoutmaster's Conference. 4 months is much too long to wait, 6 more months is ridiculous. If there really was some reason to hold up your son, the troop has plenty of time to bring up the issue in years past.

[Austinole]

I wish you and your son the best of luck.

[Myboy]

Thanks Tim. I will approach the scoutmaster at the next meeting. If I don't get any satisfaction I will go around him to the district. There always seems a rush to push kids to eagle when their 18th birthday is approaching, however, when kids get thing done early, the troop drags their feet.

[perdidochas]

Wow. I can't imagine waiting that long. My son emailed his Scoutmaster on Thursday. SM came to our house on Sunday for SMC.

[Austinole]

Is it possible the SM is testing your son? Maybe it would be best if your son approached his SM rather than you.

[Scouter99]

It sounds like the SM's problem is your son's level of activity over the past 2 years. That raises some questions: How active has your son been? Has the SM spoken to your son about his level of activity in the past 2 years, or only just now? Were the "things to do" that the SM kept giving your son part of his Position of Responsibility, and if so did he do them? Was your son's effort in his PoR (which fell in that 2-yr period) acceptable to the SM, if not did he meet with your son to correct him during his term in the PoR?

 

Before your son and/or you approach the SM, you both (both, not just you, he's a big boy now) need to read the Guide to Advancement so that you have a clear understanding of the rules, what the SM is allowed to do, what he's not allowed to do, and what options are available to you if the SM doesn't budge (if he is wrong in the first place).

You can find the Guide to Advancement here for free (PDF): www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf‎ If the SM's games are over your son's activity level, pay particular attention to section 4.2.3.0 Sections 8 and 9 deal with boards of review and the Eagle rank.

 

Is it possible the SM is testing your son?

By telling him he's "not worthy"?

One of our best (active, avid camper, taught the young kids) scouts came to us from another troop at 17 because his SM had told him he'd "never be an Eagle." Guess who was wrong.

[Myboy]

It sounds like the SM's problem is your son's level of activity over the past 2 years. That raises some questions: How active has your son been? Has the SM spoken to your son about his level of activity in the past 2 years, or only just now? Were the "things to do" that the SM kept giving your son part of his Position of Responsibility, and if so did he do them? Was your son's effort in his PoR (which fell in that 2-yr period) acceptable to the SM, if not did he meet with your son to correct him during his term in the PoR?

 

Before your son and/or you approach the SM, you both (both, not just you, he's a big boy now) need to read the Guide to Advancement so that you have a clear understanding of the rules, what the SM is allowed to do, what he's not allowed to do, and what options are available to you if the SM doesn't budge (if he is wrong in the first place).

You can find the Guide to Advancement here for free (PDF): www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf‎ If the SM's games are over your son's activity level, pay particular attention to section 4.2.3.0 Sections 8 and 9 deal with boards of review and the Eagle rank.

 

Is it possible the SM is testing your son?

By telling him he's "not worthy"?

One of our best (active, avid camper, taught the young kids) scouts came to us from another troop at 17 because his SM had told him he'd "never be an Eagle." Guess who was wrong.

Thanks. We will read that. My son has been very active in the troop over the past two years. He attends most meetings, attends event and outings, participates in service projects. Helps out with younger scouts. The only thing is he doesn't attend every campout. He does go to a few. The scoutmaster is very big on campouts. He wants every scout to go to campouts. He said in a meeting a few weeks ago to all the scouts "no campout, no rank advancement". I'm pretty sure that's he's beef.

[baggss]

Tell the scoutmaster to go topple a rock.

[fred johnson]

Is it possible the SM is testing your son? Maybe it would be best if your son approached his SM rather than you.

We only have a short story from the original poster but ...

 

... There is nothing to test.

... There is no reason to delay if the scout has completed the requirements.

... There is no reason to ask for a list of everything the scout has done in the last two years.

 

Testing? I assume you were tying to find a position to justify what the SM is doing.

[fred johnson]

Okay. I just read what "MyBoy" wrote on Sunday 9:02pm. ... "He said in a meeting a few weeks ago to all the scouts 'no camp out, no rank advancement'. I'm pretty sure that's his beef."

 

Yeah, that's an SM trying to solve a perceived problem using authority he does NOT have. You want scouts to camp. Make it interesting. Make it new and exciting. Make it well organized.

 

Scoutmasters can NOT use their advancement as a tool to manipulate.

 

Please note that there are zero camping requirements for Star, Life and Eagle. Potentially, you can complete all camping related activity BEFORE earning Tenderfoot. Requirements for 2nd class and 1st class say "since joining the troop....". Star, Life and Eagle have no such requirements. Merit badges can be completed at any time.

 

As posted, your situation is addressed in section 4.2.3 of http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf. Troops can require a level of participation BUT there are limits.

 

- Is it written down? Was it written down and communicated BEFORE you son earned his Life rank. Advancement requirements apply based on the start of the next rank. So those expectations written down and communicated on or before your son had his Life rank board of review (not court of honor).

 

- If it was documented, but had changed since he joined the troop, you might be able to challenge that troop expectations have shifted and it was not a commitment he agreed to when he joined the troop. Was he supposed to quit the troop and his friends because the troop leadership had a new plan?

 

- Is it reasonable? 100% is absolute and by definition not reasonable. Period.

 

You might face arguments that POR was not completed because he did not camp. If that is the case, it is the responsibility of the scoutmaster to communicate that early and during the POR. Otherwise, the scout has completed his POR time requirement.

 

GTA section 4.2.3 is so so so written for this type of situation.

[Austinole]

Is it possible the SM is testing your son? Maybe it would be best if your son approached his SM rather than you.

Just trying to get in to the head of the SM. Like you said, we're going on little information. I was mostly just brainstorming. Maybe the SM feels like the Scout hasn't stepped up enough and wants him to take the initiative to get this resolved.

[eisely]

I have to agree with the other posts. You should have a conversation with the SM, but after that I would not hesitate to go around him. It is too bad that things like this happen, but recognize that all of us are human and some of us let authority go to our heads.

 

[Myboy]

Okay. I just read what "MyBoy" wrote on Sunday 9:02pm. ... "He said in a meeting a few weeks ago to all the scouts 'no camp out, no rank advancement'. I'm pretty sure that's his beef."

 

Yeah, that's an SM trying to solve a perceived problem using authority he does NOT have. You want scouts to camp. Make it interesting. Make it new and exciting. Make it well organized.

 

Scoutmasters can NOT use their advancement as a tool to manipulate.

 

Please note that there are zero camping requirements for Star, Life and Eagle. Potentially, you can complete all camping related activity BEFORE earning Tenderfoot. Requirements for 2nd class and 1st class say "since joining the troop....". Star, Life and Eagle have no such requirements. Merit badges can be completed at any time.

 

As posted, your situation is addressed in section 4.2.3 of http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf. Troops can require a level of participation BUT there are limits.

 

- Is it written down? Was it written down and communicated BEFORE you son earned his Life rank. Advancement requirements apply based on the start of the next rank. So those expectations written down and communicated on or before your son had his Life rank board of review (not court of honor).

 

- If it was documented, but had changed since he joined the troop, you might be able to challenge that troop expectations have shifted and it was not a commitment he agreed to when he joined the troop. Was he supposed to quit the troop and his friends because the troop leadership had a new plan?

 

- Is it reasonable? 100% is absolute and by definition not reasonable. Period.

 

You might face arguments that POR was not completed because he did not camp. If that is the case, it is the responsibility of the scoutmaster to communicate that early and during the POR. Otherwise, the scout has completed his POR time requirement.

 

GTA section 4.2.3 is so so so written for this type of situation.

Thanks for you comments and advice. I was just looking at the minutes of the last committee meeting:

“2014 will put the outing back into Scouting†They will be camping 11 times per year.

Need to have Scouts go on the outing to “build men of character†no matter the location of the outing.

This came directly from the scoutmaster.

My son has come this far and does not have time to go on campouts every month. He has fulfilled his requirements. Holding him hostage to go on more campouts is unfair. I will speak to the scoutmaster tonight, however, I know he's going to want my son to campout with the troop until his 18th birthday. My son had plans of going for his bronze palm, but I fear this has soured his outlook on scouting.

[fred johnson]

I have to agree with the other posts. You should have a conversation with the SM, but after that I would not hesitate to go around him. It is too bad that things like this happen, but recognize that all of us are human and some of us let authority go to our heads.

Agreed. Your next immediate contact should be the district advancement coordinator. If that does not work, contact the council advancement coordinator. Don't wait. it's your son. I'm sure he's worth it.