No Win Situation: Loyalty to the Scouts or the CO's troop

[Twocubdad]

I had forgotten your earlier posts where you wrote of the campout experience and the conversation you had with the SM. I think you've fulfilled your obligations to the CO troop, dude. If they ask for your input, offer it. Otherwise, stay out of it.

 

Oh, and attach your UC resignation latter to their recharter packet.

[perdidochas]

Eagle92 is in a no win situation. He's right. As a leader from the pack, he is a representative of the CO and has responsibility to represent them well. He also has responsibility to support their efforts.

 

But he's also a parent and as such can put his kid into any unit he wants. I'd assert he can't promote another CO's unit as he's already registered and promised to support his CO. But, that's me. COs support the units. So, unit leaders should support the CO. Anything less is two faced.

 

The problem is Eagle92 can't as Scouter99 (not picking on you) "send them" anywhere. There is no such authority. Den leaders can push a troop and most parents just don't know any different. So it works somewhat and sometimes.

 

It breaks though when you have situations like Eagle92 where the pack now has fed two troops and has ties to each. But BSA promotes troop shopping and it results in the breaking up of dens and friendships through having each scout "choose" his troop. Of course, scouts can change at any time. But this whole troop shopping concepts does more damage than good. Anyway, I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again in another post.

 

BSA has a broken model with troop shopping. I hope they fix it soon.

I disagree. I think most cub scouts are just going to the Pack sponsored by their church or school or the nearest available. The problem is when the Troop they are supposed to feed is inadequate. Why encourage new boys to join dysfunctional troops?

 

My boys did join the Troop that meets at the CO, just like the Pack. I'm happy with them. If I weren't, we would have looked for another troop. We did contemplate it after troubles with another family in the Troop. Thankfully, the situation calmed down, and now (a year and a half later), the other family changed troops. They needed less boy led, than our troop. They've joined a mega troop across town.

 

That said, despite troop shopping, my bet is that way over half of crossovers go to the Troop associated with their Pack.

[fred johnson]

Folks,

 

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

 

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

 

More later.

Eagle92 ... you are exactly right. A UC takes a very special combination of tact, courtesy and charisma. You hit it on the head. I just don't think there are enough extra scouters with those skills to go around. And if they do exist, they are grabbed to staff council, district or unit positions. I would greatly appreciate a grandfatherly figure offering sage advice. I just don't think scouting can staff such ranks given the level of needs everywhere else.

 

The UC model needs major fixes. If for no other reason, I've been involved in five units over 14 years now. (two packs, three troops, some as parent, some as leader). No unit I've been in has ever been visited by a unit commissioner. Heck, we don't even know who was assigned to us. It's a broken model that everyone knows is broken except those district commissioners trying to recruit unit commissioners.

 

I should mention ... I also want the UC program redesigned because most of the people I've learned are unit commissioners I'd want no where near my packs or troop.

[Eagle92]

Again THANK YOU. Some follow up.

 

1) I told the first mom that A) give the troop some time, especially since the new ASM who was our CM will hopefully turn some things around and B) if the new Scout continues to be discouraged and frustrated, there are other troops out there. I mentioned the troop that moved to their church, and all, emphasizing ALL, the other troops in the district.

 

2) Not only request that some else take over as UC, even if it's in an activing capacity, but drop them like a hot potato. A lot of people's patience ran out with the troop, not only those scouts who left but also a bunch of other leaders who have tried to help. I need to quit wasting my time.

 

3) I will not actively promote my son's troop, but when asked why he went where he did, tell them.

 

4) If folks tell me they are looking for another troop, continue to tell them about all of the troops in the district.

 

5) If I am doing Round Ups, and Boy Scout age youth show up, I will actively promote my son's troop, and not the troubled troop. Already lost 2 boys to Scouting doing that, don't want to lose anymore.

 

6) deal with the troop only when I must.

[Pack18Alex]

Folks,

 

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

 

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

 

More later.

We had a great Unit Commissioner. Motivated parents to get more involved, came to our summer committee meetings, came to Pack Meetings, spoke for a few minutes. All in all, a great a positive contributor.

 

I was told we were EXTREMELY lucky.

 

Unique circumstance, as the only Jewish Troop, a senior Jewish Scouter was thrilled to serve as a resource to us.

[Pack18Alex]

Folks,

 

1) THANK YOU for all the comments, ideas, everything as it does help tremendously. Also thank you for letting me vent on this topic.

 

2) I know I am too close to this topic to see clearly. Believe ti or not, I know I am a bad choice for the UC position, told the DC my concerns and said I would do it until they found another. They did find someone in August, a former committee member from the troop who left town for about 2 years to take care of her dying mom. I don't know what happened, but I was asked in Dec to help them out with the charter, a UC duty.

 

More later.

We had a great Unit Commissioner. Motivated parents to get more involved, came to our summer committee meetings, came to Pack Meetings, spoke for a few minutes. All in all, a great a positive contributor.

 

I was told we were EXTREMELY lucky.

 

Unique circumstance, as the only Jewish Pack/Troop in our District, a senior Jewish Scouter was thrilled to serve as a resource to us.

[fred johnson]

Again THANK YOU. Some follow up.

 

1) I told the first mom that A) give the troop some time, especially since the new ASM who was our CM will hopefully turn some things around and B) if the new Scout continues to be discouraged and frustrated, there are other troops out there. I mentioned the troop that moved to their church, and all, emphasizing ALL, the other troops in the district.

 

2) Not only request that some else take over as UC, even if it's in an activing capacity, but drop them like a hot potato. A lot of people's patience ran out with the troop, not only those scouts who left but also a bunch of other leaders who have tried to help. I need to quit wasting my time.

 

3) I will not actively promote my son's troop, but when asked why he went where he did, tell them.

 

4) If folks tell me they are looking for another troop, continue to tell them about all of the troops in the district.

 

5) If I am doing Round Ups, and Boy Scout age youth show up, I will actively promote my son's troop, and not the troubled troop. Already lost 2 boys to Scouting doing that, don't want to lose anymore.

 

6) deal with the troop only when I must.

Wish you the best ... I've been in your situation and I know many many others currently in it. Your stuck because you are a registered leader for that CO, but you can't "fully" support the CO. You are grateful to the CO, but you have to passively subvert their efforts by being the contact point for other units. In fact, when I read your notes which are honest and well written, I cringe. I cringe because I see walls blocking communication being put up and I see hard feelings that will inevitably develop. It happens all the time in scouting.

 

The fault is not on you or the troop or your CO. I fully put it on BSA. We don't see this issue when scouts progress between Tiger, Wolf, Bear or the start of Webelos. We don't see it between any of the boy scout ranks. Yet we do see scouts transfer now and then between units if there is an issue. We see it because of the horribly designed Webelos transition.

[AKdenldr]

Service first to the boy and his parents, second to the movement of scouting, third to anything else. Provide factual information and what you don't say will most likely ring clear.

 

In addition, I suggest something like this, "All volunteer organizations change over time, especially those serving youth. What is a good program now can change in just a few years. Be ready to support the organizations of your children. All troops are different. Ask carefully about the current program and current plans. Adults should like the adults and youth should like the youth. Visit multiple times."

 

If they ask you directly why your son chose troop B, say something like "in addition to liking the Adults and Youth, the camping calendar was well planned and campouts were nicely organized and not cancelled. He has continued to do well in his first year and has done this and that and the other thing....."

[Eagle92]

Yep, everything comes in cycles and change happens. The troop that is now considered the best one in the district by many was having issues a few years back. Troop that was considered the best at the time, is now losing scouts left and right. Found out another scout left them to join another troop.

[Eagle92]

QUICK UPDATE: To quote Gandalf the White, "There's always hope... a fool's hope." For the first time in over 2 years, the troop had a representative at the RT! Ok it wasn't one of their registered leaders, and he showed up 20 minutes late, BUT THEY HAD A REPRESENTATIVE THERE!

 

The parent who was suppose to go camping with the troop showed up to get info and represent the troop. He doesn't want to register because he is in the process of starting his own business, and cannot really commit like he would like. reason for being late was taking care of work.

 

I am hoping and praying things turn around.

[Eagledad]

Because of how I'm used to they we'd do things, what does the Key 3 think? Barry