Pros and Cons of the Junior Assistant Scoutmaster position

[Sentinel947]

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

Kudu Boy Scouts is not the Army. Nor should it be.

[Kudu]

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

It's Acco40's analogy, lecture him.

[Sentinel947]

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

Fair is fair. Acco. The Boy Scouts isn't the Army.

 

The way a Squad is run in the Army isn't at all similar to a Boy Scout Patrol. A Platoon isn't similiar to a Troop.

[Kudu]

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

Yeah, Acco, get with the program! Scouting was popular 100 years ago because boys wanted to play army reconnaissance patrol. Scouting for the 21st century is designed for adults who want to play office. Apothecus needs a Junior Achievement branch manager, not a Patrol Leader!

[Sentinel947]

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

If Boys want to play Army, then maybe JROTC is for them. They can do Drill and Ceremony just like the real Army! Then they can learn how to fill out request forms just like the real Army! Then they can learn to fill out Operation Order Plans just like the real Army! Then when they get something wrong, they can get smoked by their Patrol Leader, just like the real Army!

 

What fun!

 

Baden Powells early Scouting skills were very similiar to the ones he used in reconnaissance in the British Army. But the way it operates is not the same. Scouting is a unique thing. So I don't like the military analogies. Besides some similarities in certain skills, a hierarchy structure, the fact it uses ranks the military is a very different breed of animal. The military isn't for everybody. I want to try to include as many boys as possible in Scouting.

 

But go ahead Kudu, let your Scouts play recon patrol. You gotta play the Lieutenant. So start pushing that paperwork. Cause that's what Lieutenants do.

[Kudu]

If Boys want to play Army, then maybe JROTC is for them. They can do Drill and Ceremony just like the real Army! Then they can learn how to fill out request forms just like the real Army! Then they can learn to fill out Operation Order Plans just like the real Army! Then when they get something wrong, they can get smoked by their Patrol Leader, just like the real Army!

What fun!

Baden Powells early Scouting skills were very similiar to the ones he used in reconnaissance in the British Army. But the way it operates is not the same. Scouting is a unique thing. So I don't like the military analogies. Besides some similarities in certain skills, a hierarchy structure, the fact it uses ranks the military is a very different breed of animal. The military isn't for everybody. I want to try to include as many boys as possible in Scouting.

But go ahead Kudu, let your Scouts play recon patrol. You gotta play the Lieutenant. So start pushing that paperwork. Cause that's what Lieutenants do.

 

Precisely the same misunderstanding of military scouting forced B-P to write a boys' version of his book Aids to Scouting for NCOs & Men.

 

B-P was a vocal opponent of military drill for army reconnaissance patrols. He invented games like Capture the Flag and Spider & Fly to teach his patrol system and scouting skills to army men, not boys.

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/b-p...ng/a2s_167.htm

 

Boys who like to play army snatched up the book and made it a best-seller. But when youth workers took notice and invited the famous military hero to review their Boys Brigade, YMCA, etc. versions of his best-seller, it was always military drill.

 

So he wrote Scouting for Boys, a manual on how boys can build their own working Patrols. The whole point of BSA training is to destroy working Patrols by instilling in adults an instinctive drive to pull the most competent leaders out of the Patrols and tuck them away in Troop-level administrative and "training" roles like SPL, ASPL, JASM, and TG.

[Stosh]

This is why I don't have "elections". I just let the boys come up with their leadership on their own. A natural leader will stay in that position for however long he wants to do it. Telling him he has to step down after 6 months is not on my radar. However, if the boys select a leader that doesn't do what they expect of him, they simply select another and another and another until they get the one what works for them.

 

My only "rule" which in fact is only a suggestion for the boys is that the patrol have 6-8 members. They work out whose in what patrol and whose going to lead it. That way if something goes awry with the system, they have no one to blame but themselves. Of course the means to correct the problem is within their scope to change, too. It has worked for me for many years and tend to not have any serious problems along the way. I never hear: "Our PL isn't doing his job!", or "Our PL doesn't show up for meetings/activities!". Long before it gets to that point, the boys have already made the changes.

 

Boys wanting to "try out" leadership, can offer to take a role to see how it works. I have had one or two boys take PL for just summer camp. I have had a boy research different summer camps and then serve as SPL for the week, only to step down after the week is over. I have had TF boys take on a service project and act as SPL organizing PL's and their patrols for just one day. I have had PL's that knew they were going to miss an activity and have had their APL's take over on an activity well before the event and then carry through to the end. A lot of PL's often are busy with school activities and hand over the responsibilities of the patrol to their APL for a whole season of sports, only to pick up again when they get back.

 

For those that insist on mixed patrols, this can be a good thing. NSP has the okay to ask any boy in the troop to be their PL. If there are only 6 webelos crossing over, they might pick a couple of the older boys to step in and be their leadership. No "rule" says they can't do that.

 

If all the older boys want to patrol up together. Fine, no problem. I never have to set up a Venture Patrol, the boys have that option anytime they want it. If the Venture Patrol has 8 boys and the NSP asks two of them to help out with their startup, fine. At the end of an arbitrary length of time the NSP are up and running, the older boys can ask to return back to the Venture Patrol.

 

Letting the boys make those decisions really takes a lot of the having to create rules on the part of the adults. Just stay out of it and let the boys figure it out.

 

What I have noticed is that the older boys like to hang together, but if asked, they will readily help out the new guys get up and running. As a matter of fact, a lot of the older boys like getting asked by the new guys. They know it's not forever, but they take on the task until the job is done and the new guys can then pick from their own members if they wish, or ask another older boy, whatever they wish.

 

By keeping the guide-line 6-8 boys, two boys from any patrol can step out of the patrol temporarily to help out elsewhere and not lose their bond with their buddies. Those that do step out are those looking for leadership opportunities that might not be forthcoming because they have a strong PL/APL team running their patrol. These boys tend to be the temporary SPL's that line up service projects, or may organize summer camp or some high adventure outing. If they don't do it for the troop, they still might step up and show some leadership initiative within their patrol. A boy working on an Eagle project might be one of these "extra" leaders that is nothing more than a member of a patrol that finds it necessary to step out of the patrol member role into a leadership role to accomplish his project.

 

Stosh

[Horizon]

JASM in our troop tends to be "emeritus" status for former SPLs/Eagles still active in the troop who still want to be active and contribute. I try to treat them as -- surprisingly -- as junior Scoutmasters and give them mentoring responsibilities along the same lines as the adult ASM. Usually they choose jobs which interest them and those responsibilities at which they have excelled. The fellow who was a great Troop Guide may choose to work with the current TGs helping them plan their program with the new Scouts. Typically, I let them write their own job description.

 

From what you've written, perhaps this young man would like to work with the Chaplain's Aide? (And I understand that technically the Chaplain is supposed to be an adult, but a new troop with 11 member I also imagine you may not have every adult position filled.)

 

The goal should be to keep the older Scouts interested and engaged. One of the best ways to do that is allowing them to write their own ticket.

This is how I use the position as well. JASM are over 16 Eagles who want to give back, and are ready to take on more responsibility as well. They often have served as PL and SPL, but don't want that position again.

[TAHAWK]

 

 

I was a JASM at the end of my Scout career. My primary job was to be a resource for the SPL for troop program planning and for PL's and CL's for patrol and crew program planning. As we had six patrols and two crews, it kept me busy. It was an unusual weekend when we didn't have at least two patrol or crew activities going on.

 

(The de facto/default "troop method," may take a big hit in the new Scoutmaster Specific syllabus due out this year.)

 

[Eagledad]

(The de facto/default "troop method," may take a big hit in the new Scoutmaster Specific syllabus due out this year.)

 

Interesting!