SPL Refuse

[desertrat77]

Basement, kudos for how you dealt with this situation. The words that jump out at me: solid as SPL, growing. So while his decision and attitude were unsat, this may be a one-time incident for him. Especially since you gave him frank feedback, and mom isn't letting him off the hook.

 

[Basementdweller]

Well he is sick....looks like the flu...He didn't make the meeting tonight.

 

So the conversation was.....It happens, you should have spoke up and we would have got you home where you can rest and work through it.

 

Mom was giving him the evil eye, I am guessing that was not what was said.

Ya, hanging with your buddies is better than home in bed.

 

He still should have said I am not feeling good to day ASPL could you take these duties......

 

With the way many of the boys home lives are there is no doubt they like being away on weekends.

[Twocubdad]

I get this a lot, although generally not from the SPL. The SPL usually figures he sought out the gig and doesn't have much of an argument. I must say, however, my guys are much better at it than your's.

[Stosh]

This is the reason I run a different structure than that set up by BSA when it comes to the optional SPL position.

 

I view the SPL/ASPL team as the #1 supporting personnel for the PL/APL team. They are there to facilitate, mentor, support the PL's and their leadership of their individual patrols. If the SPL can't make the activity, the ASPL steps up in that support role. The autonomy of the patrol is not dependent on an SPL because he answers to the PL's who are leading their patrol. If the SPL/ASPL team is absent from an event, the supporting role falls to another scout on the troop support team, i.e. scribe, QM, or whoever has expertise in the problem facing the PL at the time. If all else fails, it falls to the SM to assist the PL.

 

On the other hand, the structure of most troop led programs have the SPL coordinating and directing the activity of the troop and when absent, the PL's, who have not had responsibility except UNDER the SPL, have to take over and scramble to make things work. Not a good plan. They have not been active leaders until a critical situation and then it's time to toss them under the bus.

 

I like the idea that PL's have full authority and responsibility for their patrols. If they need assistance, they can turn to the PLC and request ideas from other PL's who may have faced that particular problem previously. The SPL is the final stop-gap and should be the most experienced scout with PL experience. His support is critical in helping the PL in trouble.

 

To me the SPL is the liaison between the adults and the PL's. He attends the roundtables, collects up information on behalf of the PL's who are in actuality running the show for their patrols. The SPL brings back information to the PLC and presents to the PL's who make the final decision whether or not their patrol participates in any particular activity. If a PL is faced with only one boy in his patrol that wishes to attend an event, he returns to the PLC and finds out if there is another patrol going that could pick him up on their roster for that particular event. All of this is coordinated and worked out amongst PL's, not dictated by the SPL. He is a facilitator, not a director.

 

Just my opinion, but the system seems to produce a lot more actual leaders (PL's) in a troop than just developing a strong SPL. To me the SPL is the Senior most PL who's #1 job is training good PL's and "not running the troop".

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller]

His departure or absence would have not been missed. He effectively avoided me for more than 20 hours, the remains of the weekend.

 

The big issues was his holding court and distracting the other from the jobs at hand.

[qwazse]

His departure or absence would have not been missed. He effectively avoided me for more than 20 hours, the remains of the weekend.

 

The big issues was his holding court and distracting the other from the jobs at hand.

Hallmark male PMS. (An aside for PC types: I know this has nothing to do with cycles, and that youths' behavior is not as hormonally driven as folks make it out to be. But, in my crew some girls appreciate it when I call out the boys on this kind of thing, because ever since period one, folks have been blaming their "all about me" moments on things they can't control. It's nice to turn the tables. And, without pointing the finger at the females, teach that those "all about me" moments may have more to do with plain old selfishness than human biology.)

 

It's never about one kid and some personal problem. It's about making the world revolve around him/her vs. making sure the world will keep turning on it's on axis while he/she rests up to be ready to serve later.

[Stosh]

His departure or absence would have not been missed. He effectively avoided me for more than 20 hours, the remains of the weekend.

 

The big issues was his holding court and distracting the other from the jobs at hand.

This is why for me the SPL is optional, and if used, is in a supporting role to the PL's. Instead of supporting the PL's, your SPL stepped in and messed with the authority and responsibility of the PL's. SPL's that feel they need to "lead" the troop, this dynamic is always present. For me, if the SPL went around to all the PL's and said he wasn't feeling up to snuff, but he'll be at his tent if needed, it would speak volumes of leadership on the part of the SPL. The message: "I'm still available to help if needed, let me know." To me this is the epitome of servant leadership.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

There are a lot of things in BDs post that would concern me about the big picture of his program if I stayed within the bounds of Barry's world, but without seeing his in person, it would all just be conjecture. I must admit the discussion of BD having to turn away recruits seems in conflict with the discussion of the SPL who doesn't want to participate in the program. Its better for me to just consider the SPLs behavior to be the real issue and not a symptom of bigger program issues.

 

I do admit that letting the scouts off the hook for discarding a campfire brings up all kinds of red flags for me. But again I've done this long enough to know walking in others shoes lights things up a lot. I'm a very different person than BD, so it's appropriate that I would run a program different to achieve the same results.

 

Barry

[Basementdweller]

There are a lot of things in BDs post that would concern me about the big picture of his program if I stayed within the bounds of Barry's world, but without seeing his in person, it would all just be conjecture. I must admit the discussion of BD having to turn away recruits seems in conflict with the discussion of the SPL who doesn't want to participate in the program. Its better for me to just consider the SPLs behavior to be the real issue and not a symptom of bigger program issues.

 

I do admit that letting the scouts off the hook for discarding a campfire brings up all kinds of red flags for me. But again I've done this long enough to know walking in others shoes lights things up a lot. I'm a very different person than BD, so it's appropriate that I would run a program different to achieve the same results.

 

Barry

Ya know ED, it isn't my program it is theirs.

 

Not sure why a formal campfire program missing is a red flag. They would rather play ghost in the grave yard, man hunt, sniper or capture the flag. I am good with the PLC's decision.

 

The SPL was sick. just that simple. He maybe getting a bit burned out as well, he is at the end of his tenure. But he had the flu when I stopped by his house monday evening after the troop meeting.

 

Not sure what your reading into it.

[Basementdweller]

There are a lot of things in BDs post that would concern me about the big picture of his program if I stayed within the bounds of Barry's world, but without seeing his in person, it would all just be conjecture. I must admit the discussion of BD having to turn away recruits seems in conflict with the discussion of the SPL who doesn't want to participate in the program. Its better for me to just consider the SPLs behavior to be the real issue and not a symptom of bigger program issues.

 

I do admit that letting the scouts off the hook for discarding a campfire brings up all kinds of red flags for me. But again I've done this long enough to know walking in others shoes lights things up a lot. I'm a very different person than BD, so it's appropriate that I would run a program different to achieve the same results.

 

Barry

for the record I have not turned away a boy interested in joining.

[T2Eagle]

There are a lot of things in BDs post that would concern me about the big picture of his program if I stayed within the bounds of Barry's world, but without seeing his in person, it would all just be conjecture. I must admit the discussion of BD having to turn away recruits seems in conflict with the discussion of the SPL who doesn't want to participate in the program. Its better for me to just consider the SPLs behavior to be the real issue and not a symptom of bigger program issues.

 

I do admit that letting the scouts off the hook for discarding a campfire brings up all kinds of red flags for me. But again I've done this long enough to know walking in others shoes lights things up a lot. I'm a very different person than BD, so it's appropriate that I would run a program different to achieve the same results.

 

Barry

The only formal campfires my scouts ever do are when someone wants to organize a program to fulfill a Communications MB requirement or the yearly weekend we put on for our affiliated Cub Pack. Beyond that, like BD's guys they'd rather be out running around playing manhunt, capture the flag, spotlight tag, etc.

[Basementdweller]

So no response barry????