How to handle harrassment

[Huzzar]

ScouterCA, I agree, it's a cluster fart in a mummy bag. And your son has tried. He tried talking to the adults (who apparently are all missing out on what scouting is about). He talked to the boy and that failed. He found another troop that really likes him. At the same time, while your son has been driven to tears by this boy, he is "still firmly planted in this troop." Why? This might be a good place to start a discussion with your son. Obviously there's something he likes about his first troop. And more obviously there's a bully in it that's ruining it for him and probably others as well. He could just walk away but he hasn't.

 

What I mean by confronting the problem is that your son doesn't know how to deal with a bully. That's the crux of the problem. Most kids don't know how to handle this because they don't have to figure it out. The bully feeds off of your son's misery and probably enjoyed having your son talk to him and tell him how hurtful words are. When your son cries the bully is having a field day. Shy of violence (and that's an important thing to consider), this is an opportunity for your son to gain confidence in dealing with dirt bags. This kid isn't bullying your son because your son is advancing faster than he is, he's bullying your son because he gets a response. Unless your son is home schooled until he graduates, switching troops isn't going to solve the problem if they end up in the same school. This boy is learning from his mom. My guess is she treats him like garbage at home and he's trying to gain confidence the only way he knows how.

 

Getting some scouter to back up your son would be a great way for him to gain confidence, so I'd start talking to those higher up. Maybe there are programs at a local school for learning how to respond to bullies, and when to pull in an adult. I wouldn't teach this, find a teacher in a school that deals with butt heads daily. Honestly, it sounds like it would be better for your son to leave this troop (how wrong can it be?), but if he can leave it on his own terms, and not that of the bully, then he wins. Another option is leave now, but still learn to deal with bullies so this won't happen in the future.

I think your advice would be applicable if the Scouters were neutral and able to act objectively. In this case, the CC is the bully's mom and rides roughshod over everyone else.

 

There are only two options available and one of them isn't realistic. First, move on and don't look back (my choice). Second, work to have the IH via COR remove CC and restore some sanity.

 

Two might be the ideal option, but my experience is that it isn't worth the drama. Scouting is meant to be fun. When it isn't, the Scout should go to a unit where he will be happy and having fun.

[AKdenldr]

A bully supported by an adult bully with other adults enabling the behavior.

 

Your son's remaining youth years in your care are short. Cut bait and move on. If son or you want to write letters after the move to folks who might change things, that would be honorable, but not required. Letting your son remain an object of this behavior any longer is not protective parenting.

[packsaddle]

Harassment of any kind is ugly, but sexual harassment is soul crushing. This scout is violating your child's private sexuality in a very ugly way. No wonder he was so upset.

 

I have to ask the OP, if your daughter was being harassed in this manner, would you tolerate it? I think our sons deserve the same dignity and respect as our daughters. Nothing personal. I just find as the mom of a son and a daughter that in our culture generally too often sons are expected to tolerate abuse above and beyond what is expected of our girls, and I don't think that's right.

 

In your conversation with the other mom, did you stand up for your son when she accused him of lying? You mentioned that the other mom is "not one to be tangled with". Why? What do you have to lose? Are you physically afraid of her? I say this as a person who was intimidated by abusive people for far too much of my life. I have been in your son's position and worse, and was not defended by my own mother. I have lost a lot of respect for her due to this and other reasons.

 

If you are right about your SM, and he is tolerating abuse of your son in order to protect his own position as leader, then I have a low opinion of him. I wouldn't want my son being mentored by such a person. And don't even get me started on the CC enabling her own son to abuse other scouts. Makes you wonder what he sees at home. I doubt that apple fell far from the tree.

 

The actions you take now will help form your son's future willingness or unwillingness to tolerate abuse. I say this from personal experience.

 

With years of experience, similar harassment in my own past, and 20/20 hindsight, this is what I would do, since you asked:

 

1. Find out if your state is a "one party" state as far as audio recording or a "two party" state. "One party" means that one party participating in the conversation (like your son) can legally record the other party or parties to the conversation without their knowledge. If it is legal in your state, I would recommend giving your son a recording device to record his next interaction with this scout.

 

2. I would ask your son if he wants to pursue this scout or quietly leave. It should be his choice. It's hard to stand up to someone like this. Having been in situations where I did stand up to an abuser, and others in which I did not, I would say if it's physically safe to confront this abuser then it can be very healing to do so. If your son wants to, and it's legal, have him keep a recording device on him, and confront the other scout about what he said. Have your son tell him to stop the abuse and stay away from him. Then, let the other Scout run his mouth, on the record.

 

3. Make a copy of the recording, and bring it to the CC and SM. Also send a copy to the district and council with a written complaint. The bully scout should be run out of the troop on a rail, not your son who has done nothing wrong.

 

4. If you get nowhere with the Scouts after giving incontrovertible proof, then give the tape to the police. Sexual harassment of children is against the law, even when done by a minor. The other scout needs a serious wake up call.

 

This is not "boys will be boys". It is a big deal. It should be treated as one. I absolutely would not expect or allow my son to remain around this person or the adults who are enabling him. Eagle be damned. Have the BOR moved to another troop.

 

Good luck,

 

​Ga Mom

I agree with Ga Mom and with Huey earlier. Yes, calling someone 'gay' may not rise to some standard of sexual harassment. But it does accompany a pattern of using 'sex stuff' to harass others and I've seen it too. Shut it down.

Something like this was happening to one of my children (outside of scouting) and I confronted the parent (mom, in this case) about it. She started to deflect and make excuses and I cut her off. I just informed her that she's been told about the behavior and that if she isn't going to address the problem, there are other means through the school system and I would be very happy to oblige her and take over.

Never had that problem again. The harasser evidently was doing it to others as well because about 6 months later, someone exercised that 'get big' suggestion and beat him pretty badly. He didn't learn though. Years later, he mouthed off outside a bar and a couple of rednecks really did humble his body with a piece of rebar. He lost the sight in one eye and hearing in one ear. No idea if that made any kind of 'impression' on his behavior. Old painless is probably waiting for him.

[ScoutNut]

My son never came to us with these issues, I first became aware because other adults I barely knew were coming to me to alert me.

 

The scout is a very intelligent young man, knows exactly how to properly and politely conduct himself when adults are around, and how to make extremely rude, snide remarks during times when there won't be witnesses, or only witnesses he has complete control over.

 

As for my son's friends, many of them know about the issues but are afraid to stand up to the bully scout. They don't want to be an added target.

 

Obviously, this boy is NOT all that intelligent, or good at hiding what he is doing. The other Scouts know about it, and so do other adults.

 

Shame on the those other adults for not helping. Especially shame on the ASM, and SM, your son went to for help, and did nothing to stop the behavior from happening. I will not say shame on the CC/mom because, apparently, she is where the son is learning his behavior.

 

Send a letter to the DE, IH, COR, CC, SM, and all ASMs, detailing the problem, and the fact that you are changing Troops because the Troop adults are ALL enabling bullying to happen. Remind them that all types of bullying are prohibited in Scouting. Encourage them to be part of the solution, and not the problem, before more boys are harmed.

 

Then get the heck out of there permanently. Encourage your son to try to get his friends out too. Once the bully's main target is gone, he will move on to the next.

 

Here are some resources that might help you, and your son, deal with this -

 

http://www.stopbullying.gov/

 

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotion.../bullies.html#

 

http://www.thebullyproject.com/

 

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/bullying.htm

 

http://www.mayoclinic.org/bullying/art-20044918

 

Talk to your son about the ways to deal with a bully discussed in the above. Talk about what he did, and what he should do if it ever happens again.

 

To bad your son's Eagle project is finished. A project on bullying would have been great for him, the other Scouts in his Troop, and the youth in his community.

 

Good luck in the new Troop!

 

[GeorgiaMom]

Harassment of any kind is ugly, but sexual harassment is soul crushing. This scout is violating your child's private sexuality in a very ugly way. No wonder he was so upset.

 

I have to ask the OP, if your daughter was being harassed in this manner, would you tolerate it? I think our sons deserve the same dignity and respect as our daughters. Nothing personal. I just find as the mom of a son and a daughter that in our culture generally too often sons are expected to tolerate abuse above and beyond what is expected of our girls, and I don't think that's right.

 

In your conversation with the other mom, did you stand up for your son when she accused him of lying? You mentioned that the other mom is "not one to be tangled with". Why? What do you have to lose? Are you physically afraid of her? I say this as a person who was intimidated by abusive people for far too much of my life. I have been in your son's position and worse, and was not defended by my own mother. I have lost a lot of respect for her due to this and other reasons.

 

If you are right about your SM, and he is tolerating abuse of your son in order to protect his own position as leader, then I have a low opinion of him. I wouldn't want my son being mentored by such a person. And don't even get me started on the CC enabling her own son to abuse other scouts. Makes you wonder what he sees at home. I doubt that apple fell far from the tree.

 

The actions you take now will help form your son's future willingness or unwillingness to tolerate abuse. I say this from personal experience.

 

With years of experience, similar harassment in my own past, and 20/20 hindsight, this is what I would do, since you asked:

 

1. Find out if your state is a "one party" state as far as audio recording or a "two party" state. "One party" means that one party participating in the conversation (like your son) can legally record the other party or parties to the conversation without their knowledge. If it is legal in your state, I would recommend giving your son a recording device to record his next interaction with this scout.

 

2. I would ask your son if he wants to pursue this scout or quietly leave. It should be his choice. It's hard to stand up to someone like this. Having been in situations where I did stand up to an abuser, and others in which I did not, I would say if it's physically safe to confront this abuser then it can be very healing to do so. If your son wants to, and it's legal, have him keep a recording device on him, and confront the other scout about what he said. Have your son tell him to stop the abuse and stay away from him. Then, let the other Scout run his mouth, on the record.

 

3. Make a copy of the recording, and bring it to the CC and SM. Also send a copy to the district and council with a written complaint. The bully scout should be run out of the troop on a rail, not your son who has done nothing wrong.

 

4. If you get nowhere with the Scouts after giving incontrovertible proof, then give the tape to the police. Sexual harassment of children is against the law, even when done by a minor. The other scout needs a serious wake up call.

 

This is not "boys will be boys". It is a big deal. It should be treated as one. I absolutely would not expect or allow my son to remain around this person or the adults who are enabling him. Eagle be damned. Have the BOR moved to another troop.

 

Good luck,

 

​Ga Mom

It is hard to tell if this rises to the level of sexual harassment based on one post, but it might. I speak from the perspective of someone who had no support, and ran away from a bad situation with sexual harrassment by a classmate in school. I have regrets about not standing up for myself back then. That does not feel good years later.

 

What did feel good was standing up to a different abuser when I was older. I totally agree that the OP needs to get her son out of this situation, but it may be healing and encouraging for the son to confront the abuse and leave of his own choice than to feel that he has been bullied out of the troop.

 

How he handles this will have some effect on how he handles bullies in the future. It might be a good learning experience for him to stand up to the bully's behavior -- and then leave and get on with a happy life in a new troop. I wish the OP and her son the best regardless.

[Basementdweller]

So this doesn't seem odd to any one else on the forum???????

 

 

we have a boy who has been harassed to tears, joins another troop to get away from the harassment, yet retains his membership in the first troop.......

 

I gotta say what the heck.

 

 

Serious games being played by someone and I am not sure it is the CC and her scout.

 

 

So what do the other parents say????

[perdidochas]

So this doesn't seem odd to any one else on the forum???????

 

 

we have a boy who has been harassed to tears, joins another troop to get away from the harassment, yet retains his membership in the first troop.......

 

I gotta say what the heck.

 

 

Serious games being played by someone and I am not sure it is the CC and her scout.

 

 

So what do the other parents say????

From what I hear, the main reason he's staying in the first troop is that 1) he has friends there (although, in my thinking, friends that don't stick up for you aren't friends at all) and 2) he has his Eagle paperwork in--he's just waiting for his BOR.

 

Personally, I agree with you, if my son was in a toxic situation as described, if efforts to fix the situation had failed, we'd be in another troop to finish. I've been in a start of a toxic situation in our troop, but we fixed it, and now the troop is great.

[Stosh]

So this doesn't seem odd to any one else on the forum???????

 

 

we have a boy who has been harassed to tears, joins another troop to get away from the harassment, yet retains his membership in the first troop.......

 

I gotta say what the heck.

 

 

Serious games being played by someone and I am not sure it is the CC and her scout.

 

 

So what do the other parents say????

If all he's waiting for, why does he have to do his EBOR through the first troop? Transfer and then do the EBOR. There's no justification to have to endure this crap.

 

Stosh

[Pack18Alex]

Well, I assume that the troop has an Eagle Rank Chart or similar thing. Having done all his BOR there, and earning his Eagle there, he likely wants to be listed with other Eagle Scouts that he came up in Scouting with. Sure, some of it is the friends since Cubs that will also be there. He might be with the new Troop going forward, but he wants to be an Eagle in the same troop as his friends.

 

I would suggest reaching out to the two DEs. Tell them that your son is having problems with another Scout, that Scout is the son of the CC, and attempts to resolve have failed, and your son has transferred troops for his active Scouting. He wants to complete his EBOR with his old troop, and you want to know what needs to be done so his EBOR can take place and he can move on to earn his Eagle Palms with his new Troop.

 

Send it to BOTH District Executives in an email, and they can work out the logistics of the EBOR.

 

Second, why not skip most of the meetings for Troop 1, stay on the roster until he hits Eagle, and meet with Troop 2. Troop 2 is his primary unit.

 

If the District Executives can't coordinate the EBOR, resubmit your paperwork with Troop 2. Get it done, get on with it.

[blw2]

I seem to remember reading as I skimmed over the thread, that he was originally staying so he could finish his duties as scribe. Seems like an honorable thing to do.

I can also sympathize with the idea that he's got friends there, and a lot of history if he's worked all the way up to his eagle BOR.... and yes, maybe friends since Cubs. Not an easy thing to walk away from I'll bet.

[perdidochas]

So this doesn't seem odd to any one else on the forum???????

 

 

we have a boy who has been harassed to tears, joins another troop to get away from the harassment, yet retains his membership in the first troop.......

 

I gotta say what the heck.

 

 

Serious games being played by someone and I am not sure it is the CC and her scout.

 

 

So what do the other parents say????

As I said, I would have gone ahead and my sons would have changed troops, and had the BOR from the new troops.

[Rick_in_CA]

ScouterCA, I agree, it's a cluster fart in a mummy bag. And your son has tried. He tried talking to the adults (who apparently are all missing out on what scouting is about). He talked to the boy and that failed. He found another troop that really likes him. At the same time, while your son has been driven to tears by this boy, he is "still firmly planted in this troop." Why? This might be a good place to start a discussion with your son. Obviously there's something he likes about his first troop. And more obviously there's a bully in it that's ruining it for him and probably others as well. He could just walk away but he hasn't.

 

What I mean by confronting the problem is that your son doesn't know how to deal with a bully. That's the crux of the problem. Most kids don't know how to handle this because they don't have to figure it out. The bully feeds off of your son's misery and probably enjoyed having your son talk to him and tell him how hurtful words are. When your son cries the bully is having a field day. Shy of violence (and that's an important thing to consider), this is an opportunity for your son to gain confidence in dealing with dirt bags. This kid isn't bullying your son because your son is advancing faster than he is, he's bullying your son because he gets a response. Unless your son is home schooled until he graduates, switching troops isn't going to solve the problem if they end up in the same school. This boy is learning from his mom. My guess is she treats him like garbage at home and he's trying to gain confidence the only way he knows how.

 

Getting some scouter to back up your son would be a great way for him to gain confidence, so I'd start talking to those higher up. Maybe there are programs at a local school for learning how to respond to bullies, and when to pull in an adult. I wouldn't teach this, find a teacher in a school that deals with butt heads daily. Honestly, it sounds like it would be better for your son to leave this troop (how wrong can it be?), but if he can leave it on his own terms, and not that of the bully, then he wins. Another option is leave now, but still learn to deal with bullies so this won't happen in the future.

I agree with Matt. If your son can figure out a way to stand up to the bully, it will serve him well in the future. One thing to remember, most people are bullies because it's fun. The only way to get them to stop, is to raise the "cost" so it isn't fun anymore.

 

Get out of that troop, but if you can, do it in a way that gives your son a chance to do it with his head held high. I was bullied when I was a child and I still feel the effects. Anything that mitigates the damage for your son will be a plus.

[Basementdweller]

Well, I assume that the troop has an Eagle Rank Chart or similar thing. Having done all his BOR there, and earning his Eagle there, he likely wants to be listed with other Eagle Scouts that he came up in Scouting with. Sure, some of it is the friends since Cubs that will also be there. He might be with the new Troop going forward, but he wants to be an Eagle in the same troop as his friends.

 

I would suggest reaching out to the two DEs. Tell them that your son is having problems with another Scout, that Scout is the son of the CC, and attempts to resolve have failed, and your son has transferred troops for his active Scouting. He wants to complete his EBOR with his old troop, and you want to know what needs to be done so his EBOR can take place and he can move on to earn his Eagle Palms with his new Troop.

 

Send it to BOTH District Executives in an email, and they can work out the logistics of the EBOR.

 

Second, why not skip most of the meetings for Troop 1, stay on the roster until he hits Eagle, and meet with Troop 2. Troop 2 is his primary unit.

 

If the District Executives can't coordinate the EBOR, resubmit your paperwork with Troop 2. Get it done, get on with it.

I have never seen a DE get involved in unit politics. It is a no win situation for him.

 

 

the DE should have nothing to do with the Eagle process. that should be your district advancement chair.

[Basementdweller]

Harassment of any kind is ugly, but sexual harassment is soul crushing. This scout is violating your child's private sexuality in a very ugly way. No wonder he was so upset.

 

I have to ask the OP, if your daughter was being harassed in this manner, would you tolerate it? I think our sons deserve the same dignity and respect as our daughters. Nothing personal. I just find as the mom of a son and a daughter that in our culture generally too often sons are expected to tolerate abuse above and beyond what is expected of our girls, and I don't think that's right.

 

In your conversation with the other mom, did you stand up for your son when she accused him of lying? You mentioned that the other mom is "not one to be tangled with". Why? What do you have to lose? Are you physically afraid of her? I say this as a person who was intimidated by abusive people for far too much of my life. I have been in your son's position and worse, and was not defended by my own mother. I have lost a lot of respect for her due to this and other reasons.

 

If you are right about your SM, and he is tolerating abuse of your son in order to protect his own position as leader, then I have a low opinion of him. I wouldn't want my son being mentored by such a person. And don't even get me started on the CC enabling her own son to abuse other scouts. Makes you wonder what he sees at home. I doubt that apple fell far from the tree.

 

The actions you take now will help form your son's future willingness or unwillingness to tolerate abuse. I say this from personal experience.

 

With years of experience, similar harassment in my own past, and 20/20 hindsight, this is what I would do, since you asked:

 

1. Find out if your state is a "one party" state as far as audio recording or a "two party" state. "One party" means that one party participating in the conversation (like your son) can legally record the other party or parties to the conversation without their knowledge. If it is legal in your state, I would recommend giving your son a recording device to record his next interaction with this scout.

 

2. I would ask your son if he wants to pursue this scout or quietly leave. It should be his choice. It's hard to stand up to someone like this. Having been in situations where I did stand up to an abuser, and others in which I did not, I would say if it's physically safe to confront this abuser then it can be very healing to do so. If your son wants to, and it's legal, have him keep a recording device on him, and confront the other scout about what he said. Have your son tell him to stop the abuse and stay away from him. Then, let the other Scout run his mouth, on the record.

 

3. Make a copy of the recording, and bring it to the CC and SM. Also send a copy to the district and council with a written complaint. The bully scout should be run out of the troop on a rail, not your son who has done nothing wrong.

 

4. If you get nowhere with the Scouts after giving incontrovertible proof, then give the tape to the police. Sexual harassment of children is against the law, even when done by a minor. The other scout needs a serious wake up call.

 

This is not "boys will be boys". It is a big deal. It should be treated as one. I absolutely would not expect or allow my son to remain around this person or the adults who are enabling him. Eagle be damned. Have the BOR moved to another troop.

 

Good luck,

 

​Ga Mom

sexual harassment for calling some one gay really.

 

GA you are completely ridiculous. IRS problems and now you were sexually harassed....really????

 

have you ever listened to middle school boys???? They call everything gay. It is boys being boys.

 

your going to record 12 and 13 year old boys.

 

So exactly what is going on in a 14 year olds life that he crys at being called a name.

 

There is much more going on than the OP listed.

[Basementdweller]

So this doesn't seem odd to any one else on the forum???????

 

 

we have a boy who has been harassed to tears, joins another troop to get away from the harassment, yet retains his membership in the first troop.......

 

I gotta say what the heck.

 

 

Serious games being played by someone and I am not sure it is the CC and her scout.

 

 

So what do the other parents say????

An Eagle scout crying because he is being called names????? Especially at 14 years old. by a lower ranking scout. Something is seriously wrong here.

 

Ya know if it was my boy, I would have grabbed him by the arm got a bit of private space and asked him. So tell me exactly why or what your crying about......Your gonna let little billy foul mouth upset you, Billy foul mouth is putting you down because you have more going on and he is jealous. He needs to put you down so he feels better about himself. So he called you gay or queer or stupid.....well are you????? I am your dad and proud of you... His words can only hurt you if you let him.

 

Don't get me wrong it is disrespectful.......But I would hope an Eagle candidate would have enough self confidence that name wouldn't bother him.

 

My son an his pals call each other gay and engage in typical teenage name calling and nicknaming. Occasionally feelings get hurt......ya know what they get over it.

 

 

Sounds to me like Troop 1 failed the lad, Just like his so called friends. I know my son's patrol are thick as thieves and would with out a doubt deal with someone picking on them.

 

 

Let me say there is much much more to the story than we are getting here. I think that scouting and the tear shed are just surface of the issues here.