Is there a GOOD reason to require a new application when changing troops/crews?

[rcrsanow]

After much consideration I am creating a Venture Crew to augment the experiences of my older boys in the Troop. As a Scoutmaster/Cubmaster with over 14 years in scouting I believe BSA and my council knows quite a bit about me. Then WHY OH WHY am I and all my scouts that are simply going to dual register in the new crew as well as the troop required to complete new applications? We have an NSA that can track every phone call I have made over the last 3 years but BSA National can't come up with a simplified process to simply co-register us into the Crew? You start to wonder if National actually likes mounds and mounds of paperwork, but I know my council office would greatly prefer not to process another 15 applications with the exact same data they have had already for years.

[Scouter99]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I think the better question is is there a GOOD reason to create a crew in the first place?

Unless they want to hunt, shoot pistols, go on horse treks, rock scramble, or fly airplanes, you can do the sorts of high adventure things associated with Venturing with older Boy Scouts.

Venturing is a separate program, if you don't plan to do anything except use it as an enticing label to do more challenging Boy Scout things, then I don't see any reason to create a crew.

 

As to the original question, if "because you're supposed to and you can't become a Venturer without applying to be one" isn't good enough, I suspect nothing will be. Next you'll be asking for a good reason to do the Venturing training.

[qwazse]

First, on behalf of your boys, thanks for your years of service as a scouter.

Second, on behalf of the young men (and, possibly, women) who missed out on scouting until now, thanks for making yourself available as their advisor.

Thirdly, like the "dogs love trucks" commercial. Boyscouts love paperwork!

 

The simplest solution would be for Packs and Troops become co-ed. Then just make certain activities available to only scouts over 14. That would solve our paperwork problem. But, I'm sure the preponderance of scouters find Scouts UK's strategy to be unpalatable.

[Horizon]

Separate apps, I was told once, helps ensure that the new group can check up on you in case the old group hadn't done their job.

 

In reality, I think it is because the BSA still has not made the adult application online, with the ability to update and add additional positions as needed.

 

I have to go fill out yet another form for Merit Badge Counselor, because our District split and my ID did not carry over. That will be my 4th application in the system - Troop, Crew, Pack and Merit badge Counselor.

[Papadaddy]

One reason is that the UNIT CO has to approve your membership, not just the BSA. Troops and Crews don't always have the same CO.

[Basementdweller]

hmmmm, so an application is too much bother to fill out for a seperate unit.

 

 

Makes you wonder if Youth protection training, tour permits and the Guide to Safe scouting are too much of a bother as well.

[Horizon]

One reason is that the UNIT CO has to approve your membership, not just the BSA. Troops and Crews don't always have the same CO.

True - but that could be managed via software easily. An application to become a member of another unit repeats 100% of the information in the prior application. If instead I simply had to update (job information, new cell data, maybe a reference has moved away) and submitted it, then ALL of the Unit COs could get my update and review them.

 

Repeatedly filling out identical information (which includes my SSN that sits around on desks at Council) for another role is not what we call Best Practices in the industry. This could be done better and smarter (and online instead of cramming details into a tiny block on the form).

 

AYSO does it quite well. All of my data is tied to my identity in their database. Every year I have to review and update it. I then print out a fresh copy and sign it and provide to the Region / Area that I am volunteering for. I do not have to do a separate application for my role as an Asst Coach for one team, a Head Coach for another, or a Referee for a higher level of the organization - because my information has not changed.

[Horizon]

hmmmm, so an application is too much bother to fill out for a seperate unit.

 

 

Makes you wonder if Youth protection training, tour permits and the Guide to Safe scouting are too much of a bother as well.

False equivalency.

 

G2SS is a set of rules we follow.

Tour Permits CAN be automated a bit. We keep a database of drivers, insurance, etc. that we can easily copy and paste into a tour permit. We have an annual permission slip for our parents to sign to handle medications, etc. We file a new permit because we go to a new place on a new date every month.

Youth Protection Training is education, and it is good to refresh oneself every couple of years.

 

The adult application, however, is just a dataset about the individual. The entry should not require a new carbon triplicate form every time. There should be a standard database in the BSA system to manage my identity, training, current job, etc. I should be required to update it annually as part of rechartering (something the BSA does NOT require). Any unit should be able to pull my data when I apply for a position.

[qwazse]

hmmmm, so an application is too much bother to fill out for a seperate unit.

 

 

Makes you wonder if Youth protection training, tour permits and the Guide to Safe scouting are too much of a bother as well.

Well BD, now that I think about it, I vaguely remember my MC/Co-Advisor-to-be coming to me with a pre-filled app. All I needed to do was check the info and sign.

 

rcrsanow, maybe that's what you should do. Ask the CC to fill out the forms for the the lot of you. That way, the monkey's off your back, and we don't have to ask National to do something for which they will only jack up registration fees and cause more of my youth to decide not to participate.

[blw2]

My son is into his 3rd year as a cub scout

I stepped up half way through his Tiger year to help as an Assistant Den Leader

Have held ADL, ACM, CM and now going through yet another application to be CC for our troop.

Along the way, I filled out I think 4 additional applications to replace "lost" paperwork.

so in less than three years, I've filled out something like 8 membership applications..... all so I could volunteer.

I haven't moved.

I haven't changed phone numbers

I haven't changed email addresses.

Yes, it's a stupid system.

[Stosh]

My son is into his 3rd year as a cub scout

I stepped up half way through his Tiger year to help as an Assistant Den Leader

Have held ADL, ACM, CM and now going through yet another application to be CC for our troop.

Along the way, I filled out I think 4 additional applications to replace "lost" paperwork.

so in less than three years, I've filled out something like 8 membership applications..... all so I could volunteer.

I haven't moved.

I haven't changed phone numbers

I haven't changed email addresses.

Yes, it's a stupid system.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have to fill out a new application if you are just moving from one position in unit to another. It is only necessary if you are moving from unit to unit.

 

Stosh

[Scouter99]

One reason is that the UNIT CO has to approve your membership, not just the BSA. Troops and Crews don't always have the same CO.

So you don't like your SSN sitting on a desk in the council building, but you would like it to be in an online database. Let's think about how many Russian high schoolers are breaking into your council building as opposed to how many are busting into every database they run across.

[Pack18Alex]

The average American moves every 5 years. That average includes people like myself (one location for 9 years and counting), my parents (29 years and counting), and people that move every few months. Given that BSA needs policies for everyone, it's a different story.

 

That said, while they insist that you fill out a new application for each position, it isn't real. When you put in re-charter, you can assign new positions to people. Since the Charter is signed by the Unit Leader, Institution Head, and Council, that is the equivalent of a re-application. Now what I can't figure out is why the Committee Chair doesn't sign the Re-charter, when the Committee Chair is required to approve Adult Leaders during the rest of the year. Also, the COR can sign on behalf of the CO, but doesn't sign the re-charter, I guess once/year they want the boss to sign as well.

 

In addition, if you are moving between Units in your CO, or being added, you can "promote" the person from one unit to the other, and everything carries over. I think you still need to fill out an Adult Application though.

 

The broken IT systems that BSA uses is startling, but it's part of the financial problems. The lack of integration doesn't help. I don't understand why we can't within myscouting.org and have all the signoffs electronic, but that's the system in place.

[blw2]

My son is into his 3rd year as a cub scout

I stepped up half way through his Tiger year to help as an Assistant Den Leader

Have held ADL, ACM, CM and now going through yet another application to be CC for our troop.

Along the way, I filled out I think 4 additional applications to replace "lost" paperwork.

so in less than three years, I've filled out something like 8 membership applications..... all so I could volunteer.

I haven't moved.

I haven't changed phone numbers

I haven't changed email addresses.

Yes, it's a stupid system.

maybe it's a council thing..... I'm told that you do. In fact, I have on more than one occasion asked the question directly to the registrar.....

Also heard others ask the question at round table and they've gotten the same answer...

????

[Basementdweller]

Horizon your one messed up fellow....shakin my head.

 

If the fellow is going to all the trouble to start a new unit.

 

Membership applications are the least of his problem or worry. Take the 5 minutes and fill it out.

 

 

Remember all the ruckus a couple of years ago when they first started doing mandatory background checks and everyone, at least in my council, had to fill out new apps.

 

My point is if your to lazy to fill out the application again, then maybe your to lazy to be looking at starting a new unit.