Tough Choices to be made for BOR

[gsdad]

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

Actualy I know most of them, and we regualrly check her Facebook. It was one of the terms we set letting her open an account. She doesn't friend anyone she doesn't know, and has come to me to show requests from 20-something male friends of friends.

 

I am a CM, help with a Crew, and coach 16U girls softball. We have pages for the Crew, parents of the Pack, and team. I do not friend any of the kids, the only minors on my friend list are related to me. It can seem odd to you, I don't care. Most of your reactions to posts seem odd to me. That's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors.

[MommaScouter]

I wanted to let you guys know how we put the advise to work:

1. The SM had a SM conference prior to the BOR. Informed the scout that the BOR would address this with him, he decided to go through with it.

2. The scout was asked if he felt he was living the Oath and Law and immediately said no and did a good job of explaining why. We counseled a bit on how his actions effect others but informed him we were not trying to punish him, but wanted him to understand the importance of living the oath and law.

3. We asked the scout if he felt he was ready to advance in rank- scout said he WANTS to but probably not ready.

4. BOR agreed to reconvene in 1 mo. and he is going to meet with SM weekly until then to discuss how he is better living oath and law.

 

Thanks again everyone for your advise... I think it worked out well.

 

gsdad- just to inform you several scouts in our Troop have added the leaders to their facebook friends, none of which have went and decided they were going to start requesting the scouts, it is the other way around. Several even have our DE and OA advisor added to their friends list as well. It helps us get information out to them and has never caused even a minor problem until this event. If anything, it has kept the leaders behaving better on facebook because we know we are setting the example for the scouts who have requested us as fb friends.

 

dedkad- the cubscouts on facebook is concerning yes but the decision to have a fb account is not up to the troop leaders- it is up to the parents. I do know that several of the parents of the webelos control their kids accounts and will add or accept friend requests as they see fit.

[Scouter99]

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

With BD on this one. Why? You'r enot concerned sending your kid into the woods, onto the water, across the country, or into a meeting with me, but Facebook? Woah, woah! Not Facebook!

That's silly. There's nothing about FB that's different than real life.

I don't send friend requests to any scouts, but if they send one to me and the kid isn't a jerk I'll accept it.

[Basementdweller]

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

of course my responses seem odd to you.

 

We live in two different United States.

[Basementdweller]

Thanks for coming back and letting us know what happened.

 

His response is what I would have expected from a 12 year old.

 

But I am curious why a mere month delay seems sufficient? the behavior the young man displayed too a while to become part of him, I think it will take more than a month to correct itself.

 

 

as a parent I think the telling thing to look for is what other websites he is visiting.

 

The young man learned these behaviors from someone, I am going to bet is was either youtube or porn sites.

[click23]

Just to give you some legalese from the Guide to Advancement,http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

8.0.1.5 After the Review - ...

If a board does not approve, the candidate must be so informed and told what he can do to improve. Most Scouts accept responsibility for their behavior or for not completing requirements properly. If it is thought that a Scout, before his 18th birthday, can benefit from an opportunity to properly complete the requirements, the board may adjourn and reconvene at a later date. If the candidate agrees to this, then if possible, the same members should reassemble. If he does not agree, then the board must make its decision at that point. In any case, a follow-up letter must be promptly sent to a Scout who is turned down. It must include actions advised that may lead to advancement, and also an explanation of appeal procedures... The council must keep a copy of the letter.

 

FYI there is no appeal process for First Class and lower ranks.

[MommaScouter]

Basementdweller: I'm sorry, I did not clarify well enough. We agreed to reconvene in a month, we did not agree to pass him through in a month. I do hope that the weekly SMC's will help him out with that though. I am also a bit curious as to where he is picking this up, perhaps I should suggest this to the SM for the SMC's.

 

Click23: Thank you for pointing this out, I had actually found it before the BOR took place as well. I did not see a lack of appeal process for first class or lower however so thank you for that! As far as giving him a letter, I am not sure we will need to because he actually said that he did not feel he was ready, he made the decision (even if it is the same decision we would have made for him).

 

Thanks again guys! Everytime I turn around, you guys are adding something new and interesting!

[DeanRx]

Sounds like you guys handled the situation well. As to where the lad is picking this stuff up? Youtube or a porn site? Hmmmm, maybe. I'd venture to guess its a little closer to home. Does this lad or any of his close friends have an older brother? One say in late high school or early college? Good bet he picked it up from a slightly older male aquantance that he views as being "cool", thus imitates the behavoir to seem "cool" too.

 

In our troop, I can almost without exception tell you which boys have older siblings (especially older brothers) and who has younger siblings. Thos with older sibs know more about sex, more about drugs, and have to be reminded more often to watch their language than those who are the eldest child in the house or are an only child. Simple fact, a younger sibling often grows up faster and is more "worldly" than his average peer. Not a hard and fast rule, but more often than not, this holds true.

 

YouTube, they can only find so much sex ed stuff... Youtube does a pretty good job of policing itself. A porn site - not sure what he would get from this. Unless his FB posts had him talking about sex acts / things a 12 y/o should have no knowledge about - I doubt he has found that corner of cyber-space yet. If its who was "hot" or who had the best "body part" lists... sounds like an older sibling / friend thing to me. IMHO

 

As an aside - this is a very good lesson for the lad to learn. Today it was just a BOR for scouts... what happens in a few years when a potential employer sees his FB activity of years past. Or, the father of the girl he really loves? Nothing really ever goes away completely in the digital age. Glad I was 12 y/o in the 1980's - no digital copy of every stupid thing I ever did exists

 

Sounds like you guys handled the situation well. As to where the lad is picking this stuff up? Youtube or a porn site? Hmmmm, maybe. I'd venture to guess its a little closer to home. Does this lad or any of his close friends have an older brother? One say in late high school or early college? Good bet he picked it up from a slightly older male aquantance that he views as being "cool", thus imitates the behavoir to seem "cool" too.

 

In our troop, I can almost without exception tell you which boys have older siblings (especially older brothers) and who has younger siblings. Thos with older sibs know more about sex, more about drugs, and have to be reminded more often to watch their language than those who are the eldest child in the house or are an only child. Simple fact, a younger sibling often grows up faster and is more "worldly" than his average peer. Not a hard and fast rule, but more often than not, this holds true.

 

YouTube, they can only find so much sex ed stuff... Youtube does a pretty good job of policing itself. A porn site - not sure what he would get from this. Unless his FB posts had him talking about sex acts / things a 12 y/o should have no knowledge about - I doubt he has found that corner of cyber-space yet. If its who was "hot" or who had the best "body part" lists... sounds like an older sibling / friend thing to me. IMHO

 

As an aside - this is a very good lesson for the lad to learn. Today it was just a BOR for scouts... what happens in a few years when a potential employer sees his FB activity of years past. Or, the father of the girl he really loves? Nothing really ever goes away completely in the digital age. Glad I was 12 y/o in the 1980's - no digital copy of every stupid thing I ever did exists

 

[gsdad]

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

I am in the woods, water, etc... with them. People seem to be more brazen, and lose their inhibitions online. You do what makes you happy, I for one don't think there is a reason a 40yo should be friends with a kid. Nor do I text or email my players, or crew members without copying their parents. An accusation or implication of impropriety is as damning as actual misconduct and I am not opening myself up to any.

[qwazse]

Sounds like you guys handled the situation well. As to where the lad is picking this stuff up? Youtube or a porn site? Hmmmm, maybe. I'd venture to guess its a little closer to home. Does this lad or any of his close friends have an older brother? One say in late high school or early college? Good bet he picked it up from a slightly older male aquantance that he views as being "cool", thus imitates the behavoir to seem "cool" too.

 

In our troop, I can almost without exception tell you which boys have older siblings (especially older brothers) and who has younger siblings. Thos with older sibs know more about sex, more about drugs, and have to be reminded more often to watch their language than those who are the eldest child in the house or are an only child. Simple fact, a younger sibling often grows up faster and is more "worldly" than his average peer. Not a hard and fast rule, but more often than not, this holds true.

 

YouTube, they can only find so much sex ed stuff... Youtube does a pretty good job of policing itself. A porn site - not sure what he would get from this. Unless his FB posts had him talking about sex acts / things a 12 y/o should have no knowledge about - I doubt he has found that corner of cyber-space yet. If its who was "hot" or who had the best "body part" lists... sounds like an older sibling / friend thing to me. IMHO

 

As an aside - this is a very good lesson for the lad to learn. Today it was just a BOR for scouts... what happens in a few years when a potential employer sees his FB activity of years past. Or, the father of the girl he really loves? Nothing really ever goes away completely in the digital age. Glad I was 12 y/o in the 1980's - no digital copy of every stupid thing I ever did exists

 

Sounds like you guys handled the situation well. As to where the lad is picking this stuff up? Youtube or a porn site? Hmmmm, maybe. I'd venture to guess its a little closer to home. Does this lad or any of his close friends have an older brother? One say in late high school or early college? Good bet he picked it up from a slightly older male aquantance that he views as being "cool", thus imitates the behavoir to seem "cool" too.

 

In our troop, I can almost without exception tell you which boys have older siblings (especially older brothers) and who has younger siblings. Thos with older sibs know more about sex, more about drugs, and have to be reminded more often to watch their language than those who are the eldest child in the house or are an only child. Simple fact, a younger sibling often grows up faster and is more "worldly" than his average peer. Not a hard and fast rule, but more often than not, this holds true.

 

YouTube, they can only find so much sex ed stuff... Youtube does a pretty good job of policing itself. A porn site - not sure what he would get from this. Unless his FB posts had him talking about sex acts / things a 12 y/o should have no knowledge about - I doubt he has found that corner of cyber-space yet. If its who was "hot" or who had the best "body part" lists... sounds like an older sibling / friend thing to me. IMHO

 

As an aside - this is a very good lesson for the lad to learn. Today it was just a BOR for scouts... what happens in a few years when a potential employer sees his FB activity of years past. Or, the father of the girl he really loves? Nothing really ever goes away completely in the digital age. Glad I was 12 y/o in the 1980's - no digital copy of every stupid thing I ever did exists

Double paste? Better than double post!

[scoutergipper]

I am more concerned with adults being friends with 12yo on Facebook.

There's also a Youth Protection component of Adults being Facebook friends with youth. The Youth Protection guidelines protect not only the youth, but Adults as well. It is not very easy to make a false accusation of abuse against an Adult who has another Adult with him or her at all times. It is a short-sighted decision to friend a youth as that gives an Adult access (through Private Messaging) allows contact with the youth without "two-deep" and makes it easier for a false accusation to "stick."

 

We also have a policy that no Adult should email a youth without also copying either that youth's parent(s) or at least one of the Adult Leaders.

[T2Eagle]

One suggestion I would make is that if you want to talk about his Facebook behavior then directly talk about his Facebook behavior, don't beat around the bush asking how he feels he lives the Oath and Law, don't put out bait and see if he'll bite. You want to talk to him about a topic talk about that topic.

 

Twelve year old boys are not so self aware nor so discerning that most of them will catch your hints. For the most part that path will leave you frustrated and him confused until he either stumbles on what you want or you finally give it to him directly.

Why not start with the ball peen hammer. Since a scout's last BOR is probably a number of months, he could list a hundred things before he stumbled on the only one you're really interested in. What matters is the answer he gives to the real question, not how well he can guess what the real question is.

 

BOR:"Can you think of instances where you didn't?" SCOUT: I said my homework was done when it wasn't BOR "When else" SCOUT I wasn't kind to my sister. BOR "Any others" SCOUT I wasn't reverent I didn't pay attention in Church. BOR "Any others?" SCOUT I wasted a bunch of money on video games. BOR "Any others?" A kid could list every transgression in the last six months without getting to the one you actually want.