Denner cords~who pays?

[pstar]

I'm thinking of initiating a denner position in my Tiger cub den. Do the funds to purchase it come from teh pack fund or do I have to pass the hat in the den meeting. The pack has paid for all other emblems, patch's, loops, pins etc. Seems like they should pick this up too.

[qwazse]

Every pack manages these things differently. Ask your cubmaster or committee chair if this is in the budget.

I'm assuming that you are only getting one set of chords for the den that gets passed from boy to boy as they rotate the position. That's a good case for either den or the pack (not the boy) saddling that cost. If your den had the most popcorn sales, that would be even a better case for the pack picking up the tab!

[Hitawtunhe]

Since this is such a small cost, the Pack usually purchases the Den Chief cords.

[blw2]

the way our pack operates, we could easily just give the receipt to the treasurer for reimbursement...... but for the small cost, I wouldn't bother personally.

 

My son's DL is just starting to do the denner thing. I think it's a good idea.... but it's a modified program. Basically just letting any boy that wants to (or parent that says he does) take a meeting to lead with his parent. We're really doing it like the Tiger shared leadership and Tioger Parent partner thing is supposed to work...... except we're Bear year.

 

I thought about picking up the denner cords, or just using the asst denner cords that my mom saved from when I was a boy..... but most of our boys don't wear the uniforms to the den meetings anyway so I figure why bother.

[pstar]

Thanks for the replies. As it turns out, the pack leader did pick them up for me and gave them to me at the pack meeting. I made my son the Denner and another boy the assistant Denner. They both have shown the most leadership so far and deserve the first turn. Some of the other parents gave sort of a cold reception to it at the den meeting even though I told everyone it is a temporary position and boys who are interested in increased leadership (helping out) etc. could have an opportunity in a month or so. I think full uniforms are important, shirts tucked in etc and I'm enforcing it. There are several boys who just flat out refuse to cooperate and show little to no teamwork. I'm still thinking about how or even if I want to give them opportunity to wear the cords with their poor attitude and effort.

[jumpyg]

I don't think our pack was using them much, so I bought cords for a Denner and Asst. Denner for my den. A few months later, I started noticing other dens picking up the practice.

[Stosh]

Thanks for the replies. As it turns out' date=' the pack leader did pick them up for me and gave them to me at the pack meeting. I made my son the Denner and another boy the assistant Denner. They both have shown the most leadership so far and deserve the first turn. Some of the other parents gave sort of a cold reception to it at the den meeting even though I told everyone it is a temporary position and boys who are interested in increased leadership (helping out) etc. could have an opportunity in a month or so. I think full uniforms are important, shirts tucked in etc and I'm enforcing it. There are several boys who just flat out refuse to cooperate and show little to no teamwork. I'm still thinking about how or even if I want to give them opportunity to wear the cords with their poor attitude and effort. [/quote']

 

WHAT? In this day and age, what makes you think earning the right to do anything has anything to do with it? If a boy has a bad attitude and makes no effort, unless he is elected by his peers (which can and does happen) then why put them in a position to harm the program. I'm lazy and I really don't want to be here. .... A Scout is Trustworthy. Give him a participation ribbon, but I wouldn't let him be a Denner. Leadership is what people aspire to, not something that is rotated around to make everyone feel good. If one wishes to promote self-esteem, give him the cords. If one wishes to promote self-respect, let him earn it.

 

Stosh

[NJCubScouter]

What do these cords cost, like $2? In my experience the pack usually pays for things like this.

[acco40]

Avoid the cost and go with a den chief!     Added plus - no jealous parents asking "why my son didn't . . ."  Added unsolicited advice - make sure the den chief is NOT an older brother of a cub in your den.

[Tiger Foot]

I started it about halfway through the year as I got more comfortable in my role as a den leader, and began to get a better understanding of the program in general.

 

I just rotated it once a month or so among all my tigers, but to be honest, they weren't really into it. The first scout I picked, and mostly because he was usually very well behaved, had already memorized all the bobcat requirements, and had taken the initiative to do some optional adventures on his own at home. After him, I didn't really see much in the way of leadership skills exhibited by any of the scouts, but figured maybe they would rise to the occasion when given the chance... Most of the time they forgot to wear it. I'm not sure how much to expect as far as leadership goes, but I did try and impress on the denner each month that he should be leading by setting a good example vis a vis oath/law/uniform. I always made them 'in charge' of keeping track of our snack rotation and clean up jobs.

 

We were the only den that did it. I just bought the cords, my pack is pretty poor. I just keep receipts and try to remember to claim anything I'm allowed to and try not to worry about the rest, LOL.

[The Latin Scot]

I ended up just paying for the cords myself; they and the tabs are pretty inexpensive, and since they rotate them throughout the year, its easier for me to keep track of them if they are my own personal set than if I had to keep track of such a small piece of "den property."

[Stosh]

Denner cords are just for the adults to make it look good, they have no intention of letting the boys lead anything at that age.  It's kinda like a temporary participation award to be cool for a month.  Save your money, buy them treats, they totally understand that.

[The Latin Scot]

I try to make sure my Denners actually have a share in the running of our meetings, so wearing the cords actually indicates a legitimate role in our group. We have a full flag ceremony and uniform inspection every week, both of which the chosen young Denner leads and conducts. He also chooses who will give our opening and closing prayers, administers the Scout Law and Oath, and makes any announcements. When I do have to make last minute changes to our plans, I clear it with both the Denner and the boys to make sure it meets their approval. The Denner also helps me decide what adventures to work on next.

 

I figure it's a good way to teach them how to run a meeting so that someday, when they are in Boy Scouts, they will feel comfortable leading meetings and conducting business in their own patrols. Since they are still Cub Scouts, I will occasionally point out ways they can lead more effectively, but I NEVER usurp the role of the Denner in conducting the basic activities of our Den. That would be depriving them of their chance to lead and learn.

Edited August 15, 2016 by The Latin Scot

[Stosh]

Then you're doing more than most I've seen.  Keep up the good work!

[meyerc13]

I realize the original post is old, but the way I recommend handling it is similar to blw2.  At the beginning of the year.  Gather the Den and the parents.  Explain that every parent and son team will get the chance to help lead one Adventure.  Show them the Leader's Guide, so they know what to expect as far as their level of effort (almost everything is pre-planned, so they don't need to be an expert on a topic).  Explain what you are looking for (perhaps help gathering supplies for the Den Meetings, help setting up prior to the meeting, help running games, arranging field trips, bringing snacks, etc. - basically whatever help you feel you need).  Remember though, that you are the den leader so ultimately you run the meetings, but use the parents almost like an Assistant Den Leader who can help.

 

Show them the Adventures you have planned for the year, and ask if anyone of them have a particular hobby/skill that lines up with one of the Adventures.  If they do, they get first dibs on that Adventure.  If not, then you need to have some way to fairly let the parents/sons pick an Adventure to lead.  Some leaders I know will do it first come first serve, because we know that people will be reluctant to step forward, and this encourages parents to quickly volunteer.  Some leaders have the boys pick a number out of a hat or use a similar random method.  It's really up to you, because you know your den best.

 

Once you have the assignments (and hopefully a schedule of when you plan to do each adventure - I'd personally have this before this meeting), then you have a schedule for your Denner assignments.  Rotate the cords each month as you start a new Adventure and a new parent/son is helping with that Adventure.

 

One last point - for Webelos and AoL I do it a bit different.  I expect the boys to step up more, and need less help from the parents.  I also let the boys elect their Patrol Leader/Denner each Adventure, but set a rule that a boy can't serve again until everyone has had at least one chance to step up.  The first month when I implemented this for our Webelos, I expected my son to be elected because he had started working on Webelos at the beginning of the summer but none of the other boys had.  But then he wasn't elected by his den.  Upon reflection, I realized that the den was right - the boy they picked wasn't as prone to goofing around at Scout meetings as my son was. 

 

I would never pick my son as the first Denner myself - too much potential for hurt feelings.  If you tie it to volunteering to lead Adventures, then everyone understands who will be Denner when, and why.

 

Oh - and if you have more boys than Adventures, use Assistant Denner Cords and rotate Denner and Assistant Denner during the month.  Have one boy/parent help with each of the two Meetings, and then have one help with the outing and the other with the monthly Pack Meeting.