Gay policy takes effect, no apparent mass exodus

[Sentinel947]

I guess I have some difficulty too, even though not a atheist.. 2 packs, 3 troops, 1 Venture crew and fairly good knowledge of other units though I was never a member of.. The oath does have God in it. And you definitely can't think you will melt and fizzle into a puddle by saying an oath or pledge with a nod to god in it.. But, none of these units "... is wrapped around encouraging individual values based from one source, which is God... " Very little about god is discussed at all.. Oh some of these units had a church as the CO, the pack I now work with has one member from that church. Last year we had someone else in this pack who was the one & only a church member Adult/scout.. Before that no one in the other 2 units associated to a church had a member from the church.. The other three were not associated to a church at all.

 

Instead, everyone had different beliefs and levels of belief from serious church goer to "I am open minded there might be something there, don't know what." This didn't make a solid wrap around anything.. It more made a topic you rarely broached, except pointing out at camp there is a chapel, anyone is free to go if they want on Sunday morning. None of these 6 units ever ran there own "Scouts Own", nor do I remember anyone running one at a district event that ran over Sunday morning.. Everyone too busy packing up and clearing out.. Prayer at meals only if some scout needed it signed off for his advancement, scout camp mess hall, otherwise never.. Prayer may be at an Eagle court of honor or not.. That is the extent of anything religious in these units.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are units tied tightly to their CO, maybe all members of the church.. The LDS move out before Sunday, so they do pay heavy attention to their religious side of their youth group.. I am sure a few with open enrollment pay more heed then my units, but I have witnessed many units and have not seen it.. So, I would say my 6 units are pretty typical for most BSA units..

 

Also many religious people are liberal leaning.. Even from the same denomination.. Depends on what you consider the important thing to spotlight in your religious teachings. (Social judgment of others and keeping the sinner at arms length -or- helping the poor and needy, and getting elbow deep in aiding them.) Take my two scout members of our packs current CO.. Last year's member left due to the vote, other one joined this Fall with a Tiger scout (so doubt due to the vote.. But, didn't dampen their joining.) The Catholic Priest (our CO).. Has no problem with the BSA vote, and is fine with them opening it up to adult homosexuals. No, idea what his opinion would be to opening to atheists. I doubt it will be an issue in my scouting career, but sure someday it will be an issue..

 

Actually I am very liberal, everyone on that forum should know that by now. Yet, I enjoy talking with our CO, Catholic priest.. We have not disagreed on anything that I can think of, he is a typical north-eastern liberal.. We both get a kick out of their new Pope, who says he is not liberal, but his teachings don't make any liberals angry.. Liberal ideas and Religion are not the same mix as vinegar and water.. Perhaps in YOUR religion, where YOU live it is, but not every where..

Moose, look at the Popes time as Archbishop of Buenos Aires and his fight against the governments legalization of abortion. As I quip from time to time "News flash, new Pope is Catholic.

 

Yes, Not all Democrats/Republicans hold all their beliefs in line with the party platform. I'm pointing out Catholic Teachings don't align with American Political ideas. It's incorrect to label the Church as Conservative or Liberal in a political sense. Individual Catholics might believe differently than the Church, but the teachings remain the same.

 

Never seen a Local Church openly advocate for one party over another. Obamacares contraception mandate directly contradicts Catholic teaching. Not surprised in the slightest the Priests would be told to condemn it. The Church originally supported Obamacare and was a key faith partner in helping pass the bill.

[moosetracker]

I guess I have some difficulty too, even though not a atheist.. 2 packs, 3 troops, 1 Venture crew and fairly good knowledge of other units though I was never a member of.. The oath does have God in it. And you definitely can't think you will melt and fizzle into a puddle by saying an oath or pledge with a nod to god in it.. But, none of these units "... is wrapped around encouraging individual values based from one source, which is God... " Very little about god is discussed at all.. Oh some of these units had a church as the CO, the pack I now work with has one member from that church. Last year we had someone else in this pack who was the one & only a church member Adult/scout.. Before that no one in the other 2 units associated to a church had a member from the church.. The other three were not associated to a church at all.

 

Instead, everyone had different beliefs and levels of belief from serious church goer to "I am open minded there might be something there, don't know what." This didn't make a solid wrap around anything.. It more made a topic you rarely broached, except pointing out at camp there is a chapel, anyone is free to go if they want on Sunday morning. None of these 6 units ever ran there own "Scouts Own", nor do I remember anyone running one at a district event that ran over Sunday morning.. Everyone too busy packing up and clearing out.. Prayer at meals only if some scout needed it signed off for his advancement, scout camp mess hall, otherwise never.. Prayer may be at an Eagle court of honor or not.. That is the extent of anything religious in these units.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are units tied tightly to their CO, maybe all members of the church.. The LDS move out before Sunday, so they do pay heavy attention to their religious side of their youth group.. I am sure a few with open enrollment pay more heed then my units, but I have witnessed many units and have not seen it.. So, I would say my 6 units are pretty typical for most BSA units..

 

Also many religious people are liberal leaning.. Even from the same denomination.. Depends on what you consider the important thing to spotlight in your religious teachings. (Social judgment of others and keeping the sinner at arms length -or- helping the poor and needy, and getting elbow deep in aiding them.) Take my two scout members of our packs current CO.. Last year's member left due to the vote, other one joined this Fall with a Tiger scout (so doubt due to the vote.. But, didn't dampen their joining.) The Catholic Priest (our CO).. Has no problem with the BSA vote, and is fine with them opening it up to adult homosexuals. No, idea what his opinion would be to opening to atheists. I doubt it will be an issue in my scouting career, but sure someday it will be an issue..

 

Actually I am very liberal, everyone on that forum should know that by now. Yet, I enjoy talking with our CO, Catholic priest.. We have not disagreed on anything that I can think of, he is a typical north-eastern liberal.. We both get a kick out of their new Pope, who says he is not liberal, but his teachings don't make any liberals angry.. Liberal ideas and Religion are not the same mix as vinegar and water.. Perhaps in YOUR religion, where YOU live it is, but not every where..

It all depends on where he shines the spotlight.. What is most important to him.. I am not saying he will be handing out birth control pills at your next communion, but he also has pointed out that it doesn't make sense to pick things out of the bible and harp on those while throwing the rest of the good book in the trash.

 

But, if you want to hang your hat on his past words against abortions, as the only worth while thing he ever said and done.. Well, that would be expected. It is where your spotlight is stuck..

[moosetracker]

...Liberal ideas and Religion are not the same mix as vinegar and water.. Perhaps in YOUR religion' date=' where YOU live it is, but not every where..[/quote']

 

True. I'm both Liberal and Catholic. I don't see them as contradicting each other. Some people do, but it's just different interpretations of the faith. There are always elements of all religions that the majority of the practitioners ignore or modify. We don't accept slavery any more evem though you could point to the bible for justification of the practice. Nor do we largely accept underage marriages, in the US at least. It's socially unacceptable, even though religiously it could be permitted.

 

So some folks want to say that there is something in the bible that tells me I should look unfavorably on gay people. But my faith, my personal convictions and my religious beliefs, they all tell me otherwise.

Slavery in the bible is the same as homosexuals, It is mentioned and how you interpret it is how you interpret it.. And if you think it is something to be retired, then it is something to be retired.

 

Many people have interpreted the word of God in the bible as him truly condoning and having no problem with it.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

...Liberal ideas and Religion are not the same mix as vinegar and water.. Perhaps in YOUR religion' date=' where YOU live it is, but not every where..[/quote']

 

True. I'm both Liberal and Catholic. I don't see them as contradicting each other. Some people do, but it's just different interpretations of the faith. There are always elements of all religions that the majority of the practitioners ignore or modify. We don't accept slavery any more evem though you could point to the bible for justification of the practice. Nor do we largely accept underage marriages, in the US at least. It's socially unacceptable, even though religiously it could be permitted.

 

So some folks want to say that there is something in the bible that tells me I should look unfavorably on gay people. But my faith, my personal convictions and my religious beliefs, they all tell me otherwise.

"For a little balance, the bible does not justify or condone slavery, it only teaches godly behavior for people in that situation."

 

The bible describes what kinds of slavery is moral:

 

Leviticus 25:44-46

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

 

So it's moral to enslave foreigners, and you can also buy the children of slaves as slaves, and make them slaves for life.

[moosetracker]

I don't think you give yourself enough credit Moose, you can hardly say that your post are kind to conservatives. It is clear that you think yourself better, instead of different. I also get a kick out of liberals not being angry at this concervative Pope. Must be his delivery because his grounded principles are the same. But in the premise of your post, if religion were taken out of the oath and law, then what would anchor the traits of the law to have any continuity to the vision of making moral decision makers? How could an organization maintain integrity if the values are based on the ground level of the leader who looks no farther than teaching boys the skills that will get them to the next rank? Like any great movement, the foundation of its vision has to come from something greating than man reacting to emotions of the moment, otherwise it follows changes in the wind. As soon as the population looses the respect of the scouting's values, it looses its mystic to something better than just a club that goes camping. Repeating the oath, law, even the Pledge of Allegiance will fade away as old time rituals that hold little meaning. Go visit the YMCA if you doubt me. I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm just saying it won't be a values program when it does. By they way, I've heard this is exaclty what happened to the Canadian Scouts. Barry

Eagledad "if religion were taken out of the oath and law, then what would anchor the traits of the law to have any continuity to the vision of making moral decision makers?"

 

First off a belief in a higher being, does not mean a belief in a religion or a religious organization.. Religion is definitely man made.. Which is why there are so many variations believing very different things.. I can believe in a higher being, and have a belief that I have no need for a religion at all.

 

Second a moral compass is grounded in many things that are not about religion. Your parents and family, your government, your community, people you look up to whether that person is personally known, or you just read about him in a bibliography..

 

Eagledad "How could an organization maintain integrity if the values are based on the ground level of the leader who looks no farther than teaching boys the skills that will get them to the next rank?"

 

So the Explorers that is another BSA organization has no integrity?.. Colleges and Medical Schools have no integrity? The red cross has no integrity?

 

Of course an organization can have integrity and not be founded in religion and can even interest people to join in order to learn skills that help them to help others and to fulfill the needs of their moral compass whether that be due to a religion or an event in their past or someone they admire and aspire to be like.

 

Do I think I am better?.. No I am different.. But, I simply like the view on my side of the fence.. The grass is much greener over here. I also love mentally sparring with people who are different them me.. I find it fun.

[Pack18Alex]

If you take out the religious component entirely, the entire concept of Scout Law goes away and we have a camping club.

 

Not because religion is inherent in 11/12 points of Scout Law, its only inherent in one I suppose. BUT, the concept to "there is a right and wrong" is critical to the concept of Scout Law. Atheism can define a set of morality, but the morality is inherently legalistic and morally relativistic.

 

Without the divine nature of morality, you are stuck with awkward things like Categorical Imperative, Veil of Ignorance/Justice, Utilitarianism, etc. All of which lack hard and fast black and white rules.

 

Scouting, with its Scout Law to be taught to minors, requires the existence of black and white morality. It doesn't require any one specific black and white morality, it does require one.

 

Without granting the power to the supernatural to define morality, everything becomes, "it depends."

 

So while BSA is defacto Protestant while being officially non-sectarian, it doesn't reply on Protestant morality so much as divine morality, pure truth, pure black and white.

 

The religious right didn't "take over the BSA." The ACLU bullied BSA, got it kicked out of the schools, and BSA relocated to the Churches. Prior to that, the anti-atheism bent of scouting was more or less the Pledge of Allegiance and acknowledging a Duty to God. Making a stand against that resulted in the very Christian BSA we have today.

[Rick_in_CA]

The religious right didn't "take over the BSA." The ACLU bullied BSA' date=' got it kicked out of the schools, and BSA relocated to the Churches. Prior to that, the anti-atheism bent of scouting was more or less the Pledge of Allegiance and acknowledging a Duty to God. Making a stand against that resulted in the very Christian BSA we have today.[/quote']

 

I'm sorry but you have it backwards. The reason the BSA got kicked out of the schools, was because of the changes made by the religious right.

[moosetracker]

Rick_in_CA - I thought the boy scouts got kicked out due to both atheists and gays.. BSA was always anti-atheists, the religious right forced them to add the anti-homosexual piece.. I think had they not the BSA would be in much better shape today for various reasons, but we still would have got kicked out of schools.. We need to be open to everyone..

 

Pack_18_Alex - I disagree with BSA being defacto Protestant.. What happened to the strong hold that Catholics & LDS have on the BSA?.. Perhaps Christian was the word you were looking for??? Still with Protestant it is a mixed bag of a lot of different things.. We have very liberal protestant religions and very conservative religions and everything in-between. Protestant is a hodge podge of a lot of different religious veiws, seems like the catch all for anything Christian that is not Catholic or LDS.. We get new denominations all the time, because protestant denominations split off all the time.. Why? Because of disagreements on their interpretation of the Bible and what is and is not a sin.. About the only thing that protestants have in common is maybe the bible is your good book, and specifically the teachings of Christ.. The teaching of Christ is subject to some interpretation.. The bible have wildly different interpretations, and different things are retired as not being at all relative, and various reasons why something is important, and other things are not at all important.

 

Morality whether it is protestant, Christian or non-secular is based on "it-depends", just like someone getting their morals from non-religious sources.. Because not all religions believe the same things about right and wrong.. Especially not the Protestant community..

 

Pretty much anything BSA has in advancement having to do with understanding your religion is to have the scouts work with their parents on.. Why? Because, there is too many varying differences to do the training at a BSA meeting.. Any Scouts own I have gone to is basically pointing to nature, or talking about a historic figure who did something wise or nice for his fellow man..

 

I have never heard anyone say something like "You can't beat up on little Billy or you won't go to heaven", or "God wants you to do community service"..

 

But, given that scouting is local, perhaps your BSA experience is way different then my BSA experience.. But sorry, Protestant morals being set in stone?? I think you need to visit various Protestant denominations, or go to one about ready to split into two separate denominations, and is having a civil war on the issue.

[Eagledad]

>> Pack18Alex:

Scouting, with its Scout Law to be taught to minors, requires the existence of black and white morality. It doesn't require any one specific black and white morality, it does require one.

 

Without granting the power to the supernatural to define morality, everything becomes, "it depends."

 

So while BSA is defacto Protestant while being officially non-sectarian, it doesn't reply on Protestant morality so much as divine morality, pure truth, pure black and white.<<

 

Thanks Alex. That is exactly what I was trying to say, but you stated it more clearly.

 

Barry

[moosetracker]

Well personally I disagree with you both.. Since you can believe in a greater power, but do not need to subscribe to a religion. Or that your greater power must dictate your moral values.. Then your greater power can have nothing to do with caring about humans morals.. It could care less with humans over other living things. It could care less about how you treat other human beings, but be very upset about how you care for the planet.

 

Again your religion gives you a black and white morality, and I guess you are so dependent on that morality you can not even contemplate having moral values without it being dictated to you my your religious leaders.. Other religious people can find their morality between religion and other factors, and if they lost faith in their religion for some reason, can find a way to navigate in this world. Still others who can believe that some greater power had some hand in the blueprint of creating us, can find their morals through other things in their world, family, friends, community, government, and great leaders they have met or read about.. They are very active in BSA, can say the Scout Oath and Pledge of allegiance with no problem and still not attribute a single nuance of their moral values to this greater power. Then there are the atheists who are not in the BSA, but get their moral values pretty much in the same manner as the third group of members of the BSA..

 

If your religion is the only thing you can credit for defining your morals.. That is fine. That is you, and you are entitled to follow your beliefs.. But, yes, atheist can have good morals as well as the second or third group, who do not get all their morals if any from a supernatural power who defined morality for them.. All morals do not have to come from the black and white of your religious beliefs, you can be in BSA and have no religious beliefs at all.. Religion needs a God or Gods, but, belief in a God or a greater power requires no religion or religious belief.. BSA has many members who do not claim to follow a religion of any kind. If your duty to your God is nothing, well that is your belief, and that is what you follow, but baring that you are expected to do your duty to your Country and your duty to the Scout Law.

 

Even with this fact that BSA does not need you to have a power to the supernatural to define morality.. Or if you have a religion, then even if your religious beliefs are totally different then the guy who sits next to you in your patrol.. BSA can mold all of you into a person who has good morals and be a good citizen.. You can do this, because unless you are in a youth group that is members of your church only, then you are doing it.. So pat yourself on the back, and take credit for doing a super job with a mixed group of youth whose morality is built on "it depends"..

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"The ACLU bullied BSA, got it kicked out of the schools"

 

The BSA wasn't kicked out of schools, they can still meet in public schools on the same basis as any other outside group. What the BSA lost were public schools as chartering organizations, as public schools can't run private clubs that exclude atheists.

 

"Prior to that, the anti-atheism bent of scouting was more or less the Pledge of Allegiance and acknowledging a Duty to God."

 

And excluding every atheist that the BSA knew about, like the Randall twins, Remington Powell, and Darrell Lambert.

 

Since you're new here, I helped Adam Schwartz of the Illinois ACLU stop public school BSA units in 2005, by the way.

[Eagledad]

Moose, you keep trying to debate this at a personal level. We are talking about the conceptual design of the whole organization. Values based from what Pack18Alex calls devine nature is not theory, it's reality by design. Your need to debate the reality shows that either you don't understand the intent, or that you don't agree with it in the desgin and would rather the BSA change it's values away from a devine scource and move toward a youth activities theme program like the YMCA and little league baseball. Your debate is not whether the BSA's values are centered from a Devine Nature, because it is. Your argument should be to take god out of the oath and law so that there are no adult membership restrictions. Barry

[Sentinel947]

I guess I have some difficulty too, even though not a atheist.. 2 packs, 3 troops, 1 Venture crew and fairly good knowledge of other units though I was never a member of.. The oath does have God in it. And you definitely can't think you will melt and fizzle into a puddle by saying an oath or pledge with a nod to god in it.. But, none of these units "... is wrapped around encouraging individual values based from one source, which is God... " Very little about god is discussed at all.. Oh some of these units had a church as the CO, the pack I now work with has one member from that church. Last year we had someone else in this pack who was the one & only a church member Adult/scout.. Before that no one in the other 2 units associated to a church had a member from the church.. The other three were not associated to a church at all.

 

Instead, everyone had different beliefs and levels of belief from serious church goer to "I am open minded there might be something there, don't know what." This didn't make a solid wrap around anything.. It more made a topic you rarely broached, except pointing out at camp there is a chapel, anyone is free to go if they want on Sunday morning. None of these 6 units ever ran there own "Scouts Own", nor do I remember anyone running one at a district event that ran over Sunday morning.. Everyone too busy packing up and clearing out.. Prayer at meals only if some scout needed it signed off for his advancement, scout camp mess hall, otherwise never.. Prayer may be at an Eagle court of honor or not.. That is the extent of anything religious in these units.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are units tied tightly to their CO, maybe all members of the church.. The LDS move out before Sunday, so they do pay heavy attention to their religious side of their youth group.. I am sure a few with open enrollment pay more heed then my units, but I have witnessed many units and have not seen it.. So, I would say my 6 units are pretty typical for most BSA units..

 

Also many religious people are liberal leaning.. Even from the same denomination.. Depends on what you consider the important thing to spotlight in your religious teachings. (Social judgment of others and keeping the sinner at arms length -or- helping the poor and needy, and getting elbow deep in aiding them.) Take my two scout members of our packs current CO.. Last year's member left due to the vote, other one joined this Fall with a Tiger scout (so doubt due to the vote.. But, didn't dampen their joining.) The Catholic Priest (our CO).. Has no problem with the BSA vote, and is fine with them opening it up to adult homosexuals. No, idea what his opinion would be to opening to atheists. I doubt it will be an issue in my scouting career, but sure someday it will be an issue..

 

Actually I am very liberal, everyone on that forum should know that by now. Yet, I enjoy talking with our CO, Catholic priest.. We have not disagreed on anything that I can think of, he is a typical north-eastern liberal.. We both get a kick out of their new Pope, who says he is not liberal, but his teachings don't make any liberals angry.. Liberal ideas and Religion are not the same mix as vinegar and water.. Perhaps in YOUR religion, where YOU live it is, but not every where..

I'm hanging my hat on the fullness of Pope Francis positions. He is what every Pope before him was. As you've said "his spotlight" is aimed differently. I think we are talking past each other other. You are also putting words in my mouth. I don't appreciate that.

 

I think we can agree Pope Francis's public words are a shift in focus from the Theology professor who was Pope before Him. But the Popes positions are Catholic positions, that happen to be shared by many liberals.

 

My point on his time as ArchBishop is to point out that he Has in the past talked about those things. Even if he doesn't as often now.

 

(Have you read Evangii Gaudium?) I think it's a great comprehensive look at the Mindset of the Pope in his own words.

[Pack18Alex]

As an individual, you can absolutely have verb strong morals and be an atheist. You can be a very strong theist and utterly immoral. The very legalistic side of Judaism, Catholicism, and Islam all tend towards amoral legalisms. That's NOT the point.

 

Scout Law as a philosophical framework requires that there be an absolute set of principles, enumerated as 12 points of Scout Law. That framework requires "black and white" from an external higher authority.

 

It is a philosophical framework, divine morality. There are certainly non-divine morality frameworks, but most of them require a degree of case-by-case relatavisms. For example, if we accept Rawl's Theory of Justice as our framework, then all actions get viewed through a Veil of Ignorance, and morality is determined by how we would feel if we had no idea which side of the equation we'd be on. This encourages compassion for the less fortunate, but it's case by case. If you accept Utilitarianism as your framework, it's greatest good for the greatest number, which accepts scapegoating, but again is case by case. If we accept Kant's categorical imperative, then we have to evaluate each decision on universality, something is only moral if everyone doing it results in a good result. This is the most compatible with Scouting, BTW, but runs into conflict with the ability to deal with behaviors that are harmless in small numbers, bad universally. To bring it back to the current subject, acceptance of Homosexuality is rejected by Abrahamic Divine Law, accepted by Theory of Justice, and Utilitarianism is somewhat indifferent, while perhaps seeing that the greatest good is accepting everyone for whom they are. The categorical imperative forces a condemnation of homosexuality, because if EVERYONE is homosexual, society crumbles.

 

So it is very possible to build a personal moral worldview without divine law. It's very possible to build a philosophical worldview without divine law.

 

However, Scout Law, with its emphasis on 12 unbreakable virtues to live by, is NOT compatible with case-by-case philosophy. At it's core, the Scout Law requires accepting those virtues as given and not negotiable. Mosaic Law is given by Torah/Talmud, Christian law by Bible/Canon/Governing bodies, and Scout Law is given by Baden-Powell.

 

If you reject "law from on high," then you can't really accept Baden-Powell's Scout Law, because the idea of law "as given" is rejected. Scout Law is NOT compatible with "personal morality."

 

One can ABIDE by Scout Law and ABIDE by personal morality, but only because in your personal morality, you've chosen to embrace Scout Law. The nature that Scout Law simply is and must be accepted is not compatible with a view of personal morality.

 

Now, if you embrace personal morality AND scout law, you don't see this conflict... that's not my ignorance, that's your selection bias. Those that embrace personal morality and reject scout law simple aren't Scouts/Scouters, so they aren't in the discussion.

[Pack18Alex]

Regarding BSA being Protestant:

 

BSA is extremely Protestant, it's just that Protestants don't even understand how it's Protestant, which I've posted elsewhere.

 

Scouts' Own: EXTREMELY Protestant. Not the content, which is non-denominational, but the structure. Catholics/Jews/Muslims have fixed prayer liturgy. LDS has it's own structure. Freewheeling services are Protestant.

 

Religious Requirements: talk with parents/religious leader type stuff. Again, very Protestant in the personal interpretation area. Other religions have their own structure.

 

Cub Scouts: Tigers talk about faith that is simply a Protestant approach to faith. Wolf: again, it's a Protestant approach to religion, the electives have things like "learn a hymn before/after meals" -- Jews don't do hymns. We do prayers with the pre-post psalms.

 

In Cub Scouts, my son is talking about Faith, believing in things we can't see, etc. In my son's religious schooling, faith is at most presumed. The boys at this age are learning to read Hebrew, learning the most common prayers, and learning which prayer is for which thing (tricky one: bananas follow the vegetable prayer, not the fruit prayer, since they fruit within 12-18 months and aren't classified as trees), learning the morning blessings said every morning (not subject to your personal views that day). They aren't talking about faith/belief. Muslim youth at this age would be learning their structured prayer service.

 

LDS has their own structure, I'm not aware of the details. It has some heavy Protestant influences in structure (as opposed to the more Judaic/Catholic legalisms), but it's own structure... part of why LDS runs its own Scout Programs. But the structure of their service reflects that they broke off from Protestantism. In contrast, Catholicism and Rabbinic Judaism both broke off from Temple Judaism.