Gay policy takes effect, no apparent mass exodus

[moosetracker]

"However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. Barry

Exactly.. Cambridgeskip.. I was just making a similar absurd remark to match Eagledad.. I was hoping to either silence his claims, or worse that he would try to claim England's surge was for mixed reasons, while Canada was specifically due to the inclusion of gay scouts..

 

In the post below this, I pointed to a Council in Alabama, which had a surge in membership during this period in time.. I pointed out, that I suspected their winning tactic was not waving a flag on the street corner stating, "Gay youth now Welcomed"..

 

I know that there are other factors to both Countries.. But, Eagledad would like to believe Canada is solely due to gays, and ignore England because it doesn't fit his argument.

 

Which basically still prove..... Maybe not... At least your country proves that if you allow gays in, you will fail no matter what else you do.. Allowing Gays in is guaranteed disaster.. It really is a silly argument when you look at all the other successful clubs, organizations and groups who are inclusive to all and don't discriminate. Gays are not what made them or broke them.. It was a lot of various factors, that probably had little to nothing to do with who was welcomed as members.

[Pack18Alex]

If the policy brings more corporate money in at the Council level, that'll be really helpful. The youth policy is largely irrelevant. If a boy is a problem, he'll be kicked out.

 

The policy really hurt with some more liberal parts (extremely liberal parents won't want an activity with military style uniforms and patriotism front and center). BSA losing the narrative to GLAAD has been deadly. People associating BSA with bigotry instead of service has killed the program. GLAAD clobbered the BSA brand, sad to say.

 

We did popcorn sales for the first time ever this year, raised a bunch of money. I used a chunk of it to subsidize our campouts, which has helped massively increase our participation. $5/person doesn't seem like much, but it's $25-$30 for a family of 5 or 6, which is the difference between Scouting being expensive or inexpensive.

 

Money helps, money that doesn't come from Scouts and families is HUGE.

[Basementdweller]

Yawn,

 

I have a full troop, we have a meeting tonight. there is a gay leader in the troop. Sorry to disappoint, but scouting here locally is a live and well.

 

[Huzzar]

"However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. Barry

I thought that UK Scout numbers improved after they appointed as Chief Scout a guy that kills rattle snakes with his bare hands and then eats 'em raw.

 

Skip--do you have dates of when numbers improved and when Grylls became the face of Scouting in the UK?

[Huzzar]

No mass (or minor) influx of gay kids either. So we're where we always thought we were, pandering to the AT&T dude cos he was getting stick at shareholder meetings.

 

Next up, will Gates be Stephenson's guy to push the change for adults?

It's a bit early to make any definitive statement about membership numbers and finances. My Council is still chasing down units that are tardy with paperwork.

 

IMO, the change for Scouts is minor compared with a change for adults. If Gates has been brought on board to make it happen then he should do so as quickly as possible so we can see what happens. He's never going to build a consensus on this so just get on with it.

[moosetracker]

"However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. Barry

Huzzar, it is a multitude of stuff.. England revamped their scouting program successfully, with lots of things that paid off.. Thing is, the change to allow homosexual youth and adults, didn't kill it..

 

BSA - has to revamp also.. Adding gays will not be the success or failure.. Moving more out of high adventure activities and drowning us in so many safety rules that scouts can't do more then sit on chairs around a table, and talk, will..

 

We have been discussing changes to the Cub program due 2015, my husband told me there is talk of changes to the BS program due 2016.. Let's hope they look to England's success as a guide. If these changes free up the scouts to more high adventure they will head in the right direction.. If these changes tighten rules and regulations, we will continue to sink.. Really it will have little to do with us being inclusive or not.. Inclusiveness, will just allow the families of the current generation to think about joining IF the program is good.. That is a big "IF"..

[EmberMike]

"However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. Barry

If gay leaders were the main issue, that wasn't made clear by those fighting against the change. We heard lots of reasons, all seemingly given equal footing, for why all gays should be kept out of scouting. Gay kids sharing tents, gay kids hitting on straight kids, gay kids influencing other kids to suddenly turn gay, and of course the simple religious reasons citing the Scout Oath and Law as the basis for why gay kids can't be scouts.

 

But now we see the backpedaling. I guess no one wants to be on the losing side of the issue now that it has been decided, at least as far as the kids are concerned.

 

It probably should have been expected, though. There is always a lot of dramatic posturing when things like this happen. How many people actually moved to Canada when Bush or Obama won? It's the same thing. The possible outcome is just too horrible to bear, and then when it comes to fruition all of a sudden things aren't so bad and no one moves to Canada, no one quits scouting, etc.

[EmberMike]

So not many members have left, sponsors who dropped units were easily replaced, and scouting is moving on like not much happened.

 

I hate to pull an "I told you so," but, well...

 

And since this hasn't been the big catastrophe that many expected, I think it's safe to restate that having an official policy to allow gay adults be leaders would also not result in any exodus or closing of units due to sponsor loss. But of course we'll need to go through years of debate again before that happens and then we can all sit here like we are today talking about how silly it was to even worry about what would happen.

[Twocubdad]

No mass (or minor) influx of gay kids either. So we're where we always thought we were, pandering to the AT&T dude cos he was getting stick at shareholder meetings.

 

Next up, will Gates be Stephenson's guy to push the change for adults?

Our council hasn't lost a single Scouts over the issue. To date. Of course drops don't show up until the first wave of rechartering begins next month. Makes me wonder of the 'Bama boys aren't playing footsie with the same numbers. Stay tuned.

[moosetracker]

"However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. Barry

EmberScout - I think the back peddling wasn't simply after the vote.. There was still some big posturing afterward.. It is just that now that January is here, and no mass exodus are they back peddling that the youth weren't the issue.. Then we still have people like Eagledad who are still sure that the sky is still falling, it just needs another month or two.. Wait for it......... Wait for it.......

[moosetracker]

No mass (or minor) influx of gay kids either. So we're where we always thought we were, pandering to the AT&T dude cos he was getting stick at shareholder meetings.

 

Next up, will Gates be Stephenson's guy to push the change for adults?

Twocubdad - First off, not all councils recharter in December.. I always thought so, but was surprised when we had a topic on it a year or two back.

 

I know my DE was tracking his district and had a very good idea of where his district was, even those whose paperwork was late getting in.. We were about 2.5 weeks late, even so he wanted to know the numbers to add us in.. He also has a way to tally through the online rechartering.. For our Pack & troop (our troop for some reason thought all they had to do was the on-line and they were done. Don't know why, not their first time around the block. But, they were late also due to this.)

Anyway our DE knew before we rechartered who was added and dropped.. He had his fingers on his numbers.. Last night at the District meeting, he reported his numbers.. I don't think my DE was doing anything that other DE's don't do.. The recruitment numbers are their bread & butter.. THEY KNOW !!!

 

Therefore, I think that even if the Alabama boys rechartered in December, they have a good handle on their final numbers.

[Stosh]

All this speculation based on what? Guesses? Until after a round of rechartering there is no measurable what of knowing what if any affect this new policy has or will have.

 

This discussion is nothing more than thread flaming.

 

Stosh

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Business as usual, no change ... I'm shocked. Can we get past this now, and focus on the youth we're here to help?

[EmberMike]

Business as usual, no change ... I'm shocked. Can we get past this now, and focus on the youth we're here to help?

Well this isn't over for a lot of folks. Gay parents still can't be leaders in their own kids' units because the BSA still openly discriminates against gay adults. I'm not satisfied with this yet, and I hope others feel the same way.

 

We are not at a point yet where we can move on.

[EmberMike]

All this speculation based on what? Guesses? Until after a round of rechartering there is no measurable what of knowing what if any affect this new policy has or will have.

 

This discussion is nothing more than thread flaming.

 

Stosh

Hardly. At the very least this thread puts to rest the fear-mongering idea that was floating around that many units would lose sponsors and not be able to survive. It turns out that there are plenty of sponsoring opportunities for units that need them, and units that lost them have been able to recover quickly.

 

Sure this doesn't tell the whole story, but it's an interesting bit of information from one area that speaks to how the policy is and isn't affecting units.