"Unfair" older patrols?

[Twocubdad]

Reason 16 we don't do Klondike. Our district runs two separate camporees for younger and older Scouts, but even within the smaller demographic groups, there are still troops which create patrols specifically for Klondike. Of course the swear up and down they don't stack the patrols. My problem is that with this system troops with mixed-age patrols are required to shuffle their patrols by age in order to meet the camporee rules. So you Green Bar has spend a year training his patrol, developing a team and honing his leadership, but because his birthday falls a few weeks before the camporee, he's sidelined. Why? There are other rules which work against the patrol system I don't care for.

 

And yes, I spent three years working through the system trying to get the Ol' Boys to make some reasonable accommodations for the different ways troops apply the program. Not a chance.

[Eagle92]

Mixed emotions on this. One one hand as others have mentioned, some troops do use aged based patrols. Me personally, I prefer mixed aged patrol to a point. When your older Scouts start taking on troop responsibilities, I prefer to put them together in a venture patrol, what was called in my day the Leadership Corps (LC). ASPL doubles as the PL for the LC, and members were the troop's librarian, instructors, quartermaster, etc. Reason being that sometimes troop duties interfere with what needs to be done with patrols, i.e. patrols are setting up their campsites while the older scouts are setting up the compass course. Another reason I like this set up si that sometimes the older Scouts need more of a challenge. I still remember the troop doing the 14 mile Vicksburg trail on the road, while the LC did the 12 mile cross country orienteering trail, and when one year that trail was closed, doing both the 14 mile and 7 mile road trails.

 

BUT when a troop is stacking their scouts into a "super" patrol, sorry that is wrong. I've seen that happen a time or two, and it's real easy to spot the patrol that has no flag or reuses the same flag over and over, everyone has different patrol medallions on, and they have 3 PLS and 4 APLS. Thank goodness uniform inspections are part of the camporee process in my neck of the woods, and they usually lose points in that area as a result.

 

 

Desertrat brings up a great point. We had a patrol that was referred to by some Scouts as the " $#!* Patrol " because all their members were in the 15-17 year range, were Life and Eagles, and went to Philmont about 4 months before camporee, and they were bragging up a storm. That year, the district allowed a Venturing Crew that had just started up about 6 - 8 months before to compete at camporee. Since many of the members were also Scouts in troops, only the girls competed in the competition. They cleaned everyone's clock in the competition and anihilated the Philmont patrol. not only the Venturers who competed were proud, but also the male Venturers who worked with them, but competed with their troops.

[Cambridgeskip]

I have the solution, I've seen it used in YMCA little league in our area. Don't keep score and give all the scouts who participate a trophy at the end. It's not very good for developing character, but nobody goes home disappointed either, especially the adults. I came from a very competitive troop and the first question I ask all of you is what if the scouts don't want to play? To be competitive, the scouts have to practice a lot. I've never seen a competitive patrol or troop that didn't have some adult motivation behind them. I'm sure even the super patrol the OP describes has an adult in the back ground. How bad do "you" want your scouts to win? That is likely the measure of well the scouts will do. Like every competition in life that we participate, practice is required to accel. Are you as an adult willing to accept that because the scouts will need a little help. Barry

I struggle with that idea. Scouting should not be all about competition, but from time to time a bit of competition does them good. And if we are preparing young people for the real world then we need to introduce them to the fact that there will be winners and losers. Eventually they will get interviewed for a job and the fact is only of those interviewed will get that job. The rest are not going to be sent home with a week's pay for taking part.

[Stosh]

Each patrol reserves the right to choose whether or not they are going to compete in the camporee competitions. My younger boys always like to "practice" on their own during the competition times. If there are are 5 competitive activities they might only compete in one or two of them. The choice is theirs and they are not "put down" for choosing to opt out of any embarrassing situations. If they know they can't start a fire, then I give them the option to stay in the campsite and work on that skill without some judge looking over their shoulder evaluating them. I have them go through the whole process as if it were a competition and then when the awards are handed out, compare their scores to the patrols that get awards. If their numbers are competitive they have the option to opt in on the next competition when it rolls around.

 

There is nothing worse than the boys doing their best and finding out they didn't even place in the ballpark. This way the practice time can be best spent as a learning opportunity, not a judgment. They may never be good a fire starting, but why submit oneself to that point being thrown back at them each time a camporee rolls around? The boys are there to learn and have a good time.

 

Stosh

[Horizon]

Our Camporee's have separate judging and difficulty for Venture - so the older "killer" groups tend to fight it out there. I agree on the challenge of NSPs vs. mixed ages. My Troop has gone to NSPs this year, so my younger son will be headed to Camporee two months after bridging with a group of not-yet-Tenderfeet Scouts probably.

 

The issue I don't like is when an event is based on upper body strength, so younger/smaller Scouts have ZERO change of competing. I have seen that before, and I have seen the look on the Scout's face. Yes, they can come back in 3 years after puberty hits and they bulk up - but they have no chance of nailing the event prior to that.