NOAC Patch Placement

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

I’ve been involved in scouting, and the Order of the Arrow, for many years. I understand most uniform polices, and the reasoning behind them, however there is one I just can't figure out. NOAC is a national event on par with National Jamboree, so why can’t a NOAC patch be work above the right uniform pocket?

 

[EagleScout441]

I would say that it can be placed above the right pocket. The right pocket patch placement is the most neglected rule of the uniform, for I have seen many scouts wearing "illegal" patches there, the most common ones are either NYLT or NAYLE.

[Eagle92]

OOE,

 

All Cub Scout leaders can wear 1 temporary insignia either on the pocket, or above the pocket, just not 2 temp insignia.

 

Female Boy Scout and Venturing leaders also have the option of one temp insignia either on the pocket, or above it. But again not 2 temp insignia.

 

Why female Venturers who may have the same anatomical problems that the over 21 ladies have, I don't know.

 

As for Sea Scouts, no temp insignia is allowed UNLESS it's the Sea Scout 2012 100th anniversary patch. http://www.sgtradingpost.com/product.php?product_id=570&subcat_id=90

 

Now as to why NOACs are not accorded the same respect as Jamborees? Don't know. But Philmont, Sea base, N Tier, etc are not accorded Jambo status either.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Eagle 92, I agree on our High Adventure Bases as well. I'm aware of uniform policy and right side patch placement; I just don't understand why NOAC and High Adventure base insignia are not allowed placement above the right pocket. A National program is a national program, isn't it?

 

I've been to three NOAC's, did two Philmont Treks, and been to Northern Tier, and just fail to see how these events do not have the same importance as a National Jamboree.

 

I like that you point out that just "one" temp patch can be worn on the right pocket; it makes me nuts when people wear multiple temps on the right pocket, or wear temps on both right and left pocket.

 

For clarification, my post isn't an argument for wearing more insignia; it's an argument to have all National Programs correctly recognized.

 

Eagle Scout 441, I'm not aware of any lack of clarity on what male scouts or leaders are allowed to wear above the right pocket. I have to admit the rebel in me is tempted to follow your suggestions, but as a Lodge Advisor I have to be very aware of the example I set.

[EagleScout441]

Eagle 92, I agree on our High Adventure Bases as well. I'm aware of uniform policy and right side patch placement; I just don't understand why NOAC and High Adventure base insignia are not allowed placement above the right pocket. A National program is a national program, isn't it?

 

I've been to three NOAC's, did two Philmont Treks, and been to Northern Tier, and just fail to see how these events do not have the same importance as a National Jamboree.

 

I like that you point out that just "one" temp patch can be worn on the right pocket; it makes me nuts when people wear multiple temps on the right pocket, or wear temps on both right and left pocket.

 

For clarification, my post isn't an argument for wearing more insignia; it's an argument to have all National Programs correctly recognized.

 

Eagle Scout 441, I'm not aware of any lack of clarity on what male scouts or leaders are allowed to wear above the right pocket. I have to admit the rebel in me is tempted to follow your suggestions, but as a Lodge Advisor I have to be very aware of the example I set.

I also refuse to wear "illegal" patches and I frequently point it out when some other scout has their patches in the wrong order on the sleeve, have NYLT patches above the right pocket, or even as one of our scouts did: glue their patches on! I do these things because I take pride in my uniform: sewing on my patches myself, making sure all my patches are current, replacing any that are starting to wear from being washed, etc.. But I still think NOAC stands on the same ground as National Jamboree, and deserves to be allowed to be placed above the right pocket.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

EagleScout441, the question is "how do we get this policy changed". I've never encountered anyone adverse to this change.

[EagleScout441]

EagleScout441, the question is "how do we get this policy changed". I've never encountered anyone adverse to this change.

I can think of only one good strategy: Gather support in Council leadership, Area leadership, and National leadership, then push for a change. Simple yet complicated.

[qwazse]

Okay, I have a moment to play crumudgeon with opposing view ... Why should your Philmont, NAYLE, Seabase, patch be any more special than some week long council patch? What about some patrol's handmade patch for a 10 day adventure of their own design? Why isn't being able to put a dozen patches on the back of your MB sash enough?

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

I understand the point your making Qwazse, but the question I was raising is: why is one national event allowed the distinction of unique patch placement, in a place on the uniform reserved for national/world events, when events of nearly identical description, and composition, are not?

 

Local events, and activities, are given a different place on the uniform. We could get into why each area of the uniform is designated for the stated set of insignia, but that's an entirely different discussion.

[Twocubdad]

Perhaps not everyone thinks NOAC is on a par with jamboree? It's basically a convention, staying in a hotel/dorm room and eating in a cafeteria. You can argue attending the BSA annual meeting is on the same par.

[qwazse]

I understand the point your making Qwazse, but the question I was raising is: why is one national event allowed the distinction of unique patch placement, in a place on the uniform reserved for national/world events, when events of nearly identical description, and composition, are not?

 

Local events, and activities, are given a different place on the uniform. We could get into why each area of the uniform is designated for the stated set of insignia, but that's an entirely different discussion.

Local events' date=' and activities, are given a different place on the uniform. We could get into why each area of the uniform is designated for the stated set of insignia, but that's an entirely different discussion.[/quote']

 

The right front pocket is not just for local events. It's for any scouting event of the boy's choosing -- presumably it's the boys favorite event, but it could be the patch just brings out the color of his eyes! Likewise the back of the sash, pick 'em and place them how you like.

 

Why does Jambo get it's own spot? Well, in dollars (not counting transportation) which has the highest fees? Maybe that's the difference.

 

Honestly, I think it's because Jamborees are the most touted events in scouting. More scouts attend them (roughly 1.5% of BSA membership) than any other single event at one time, and enough of those folks want to wear the patch from that event *and* not disrupt the other insignia on their uniforms.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Twocubdad I don't see the accommodation distinction from Jamboree, except scouts sleep in tents that typically have been erected for then, on cots, with mattresses.

 

The programs are similar, except NOAC has more hands on training in AIA, and more training sessions; in place of merit badge classes (different, but similar). NOAC has more of a leadership and skill development focus, as compared to Jambo's personal advancement focus.

 

Activities are similar, scout skills, team building, with fun activities designed to inspire and motivate.

 

The themes are somewhat different, as they should be.

 

Attendance numbers are similar, although NOAC attendees are typically a few years older on the average.

 

NOAC typically is more reasonable on price, but that's mostly because Council groups add a bunch of unneeded bloat to Jambo trips, that jacks up the price.

 

Have you attended both events?

[qwazse]

Twocubdad I don't see the accommodation distinction from Jamboree, except scouts sleep in tents that typically have been erected for then, on cots, with mattresses.

 

The programs are similar, except NOAC has more hands on training in AIA, and more training sessions; in place of merit badge classes (different, but similar). NOAC has more of a leadership and skill development focus, as compared to Jambo's personal advancement focus.

 

Activities are similar, scout skills, team building, with fun activities designed to inspire and motivate.

 

The themes are somewhat different, as they should be.

 

Attendance numbers are similar, although NOAC attendees are typically a few years older on the average.

 

NOAC typically is more reasonable on price, but that's mostly because Council groups add a bunch of unneeded bloat to Jambo trips, that jacks up the price.

 

Have you attended both events?

If less than 10,000 is comparable to more than 30,000! Then you can say they're equivalent.

 

NOAC does not even attract 1% of BSA membership. Although, that's partly because less then have of BSA members join O/A.

 

Of course, that all may change in the next few years if national keeps jacking up the price of Jambo and holding the line on weight restrictions!

 

But for now, NOAC strikes me just one of many awesome "special interest" scouting opportunities that can rightfully vie against local first-aid meets for the coveted spot on the right pocket.

 

There are two common questions asked of me from non-scouts: "Did you make Eagle?" and "Did you go to a Jamboree?"

 

I just pulled Webster's off the shelf, and there it is right after "jambeau". Maybe when the name of your favorite conference has it's entry right after "No" and before "no-account" (or perhaps when nobody looks at paper word-lists anymore ), we can talk about equal footing for insignia.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

I’m not sure I follow the intended purpose is in making reference to the definition of slang terms, and jargon, listed in what were once useful, if cumbersomely bulky reference volumes, now devoid of any redeeming quality , housing such gems as Tweaking, and aint … which Microsoft Word correctly fails to identify as words.

 

We’re comparing the two big national scout gatherings, conventions, which by tradition, and design, are intentionally distinguishable. The key isn’t how they’re different, and the different purposes of each event, but how they are similar. These two events are the only two single session national scout gatherings in this nation; as such, both are clearly defined as national events, and thus the insignia for each should be able to be worn on the uniform in the place reserved for national event insignia.

 

[EagleScout441]

I’m not sure I follow the intended purpose is in making reference to the definition of slang terms, and jargon, listed in what were once useful, if cumbersomely bulky reference volumes, now devoid of any redeeming quality , housing such gems as Tweaking, and aint … which Microsoft Word correctly fails to identify as words.

 

We’re comparing the two big national scout gatherings, conventions, which by tradition, and design, are intentionally distinguishable. The key isn’t how they’re different, and the different purposes of each event, but how they are similar. These two events are the only two single session national scout gatherings in this nation; as such, both are clearly defined as national events, and thus the insignia for each should be able to be worn on the uniform in the place reserved for national event insignia.

Not sure what you mean by "single session," but there are three national events I can think of:

1. National Jamboree

2. NOAC

3. Venturing's BSA Winterfest in Gatlinburg.