How do I explain this to a scout?

[Stosh]

I found a nice quote: "Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God and angels know of us." --Thomas Paine

 

Maybe I can put it on a plaque and present it to him. Not sure if putting an eagle with it would be a good idea or not.

BSA First Class logo is always appropriate.

 

Stosh

[blw2]

I can totally see a small frame or plaque with the BSA logo, a nice mounted letter, and a small engraved plate with that quote.

Just my thought, but I would stay away from The eagle logo.

IMO, it's not about him not earning eagle rank, it's about his accomplishments and good that he's done. Stay on the positive, not on the negative. Don't point out what he didn't do, point out what he did do. Again, just my opinion.

[Stosh]

 

Scout #1: Earns eagle at 14 and leaves the troop.

Scout #2: Earns his eagle, but took a 3 year hiatus coming back only to get the rank.

Scout #3: Earns whatever rank he wants, and stays active and contributes for 7 years in the troop.

 

A scout is trustworth, loyal, helpful... Gimme #3 any day over the other two "eagles".

 

Stosh

[perdidochas]

 

Scout #1: Earns eagle at 14 and leaves the troop.

Scout #2: Earns his eagle, but took a 3 year hiatus coming back only to get the rank.

Scout #3: Earns whatever rank he wants, and stays active and contributes for 7 years in the troop.

 

A scout is trustworth, loyal, helpful... Gimme #3 any day over the other two "eagles".

 

Stosh

I would prefer Scout #4. Earns Eagle at 14 and contributes to the troop until he ages out.

[MattR]

blw2, I wasn't thinking of the Eagle emblem, just a soaring eagle, but I like the idea of the First Class emblem. Better to stay away from eagles all together.

 

Stosh, I agree with you that an active 18 year old that "gets it" is worth more than the eagle rank, but this scout doesn't understand that. He really wanted the rank. That challenge was a huge motivation. Part of the problem is my troop puts a lot of emphasis on Eagle rank yet we don't know how to recognize scout spirit. We have an honor scout each COH but that's nothing compared to your own Eagle COH.

 

I guess the real question is how do we recognize exceptional scout spirit to the extent that we recognize Eagle? Eagle is easy to recognize - check boxes to measure progress, court of honor, patches, and speeches to show recognition. The problem with Eagle is that the most important part of Eagle, scout spirit, is buried under a ton of bureaucracy. Scout spirit isn't about doing the absolute bare minimum to get recognition. Doing 1200 lines of requirements for merit badges has little to do with an Eagle Charge or Oath.

 

Do I take this plaque and make it the troop Scout Spirit award and present it to scouts solely based on cheerful service and active participation? No nagging, no check boxes, no hand holding, no whining about requirements, just know what's right and do it. Present yourself to the committee and make your case whenever you want. They'll talk to other scouts to verify what you say and tell you if you meet the standard. If they say yes on your 18th birthday then you get a plaque, otherwise you can talk about how to improve yourself. This whole thing would just be a way to let the scouts know that scout spirit is highly valued.

[Stosh]

 

Scout #1: Earns eagle at 14 and leaves the troop.

Scout #2: Earns his eagle, but took a 3 year hiatus coming back only to get the rank.

Scout #3: Earns whatever rank he wants, and stays active and contributes for 7 years in the troop.

 

A scout is trustworth, loyal, helpful... Gimme #3 any day over the other two "eagles".

 

Stosh

Oh, really? There is such a thing?

 

Your #4 is listed in my #3.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

blw2, I wasn't thinking of the Eagle emblem, just a soaring eagle, but I like the idea of the First Class emblem. Better to stay away from eagles all together.

 

Stosh, I agree with you that an active 18 year old that "gets it" is worth more than the eagle rank, but this scout doesn't understand that. He really wanted the rank. That challenge was a huge motivation. Part of the problem is my troop puts a lot of emphasis on Eagle rank yet we don't know how to recognize scout spirit. We have an honor scout each COH but that's nothing compared to your own Eagle COH.

 

I guess the real question is how do we recognize exceptional scout spirit to the extent that we recognize Eagle? Eagle is easy to recognize - check boxes to measure progress, court of honor, patches, and speeches to show recognition. The problem with Eagle is that the most important part of Eagle, scout spirit, is buried under a ton of bureaucracy. Scout spirit isn't about doing the absolute bare minimum to get recognition. Doing 1200 lines of requirements for merit badges has little to do with an Eagle Charge or Oath.

 

Do I take this plaque and make it the troop Scout Spirit award and present it to scouts solely based on cheerful service and active participation? No nagging, no check boxes, no hand holding, no whining about requirements, just know what's right and do it. Present yourself to the committee and make your case whenever you want. They'll talk to other scouts to verify what you say and tell you if you meet the standard. If they say yes on your 18th birthday then you get a plaque, otherwise you can talk about how to improve yourself. This whole thing would just be a way to let the scouts know that scout spirit is highly valued.

First of all as the boy approaches his 18th birthday, he has a SMC where the SM reemphasizes his/her appreciation for all that he has done FOR THE TROOP. Stay off the FOR YOURSELF focus.

 

Secondly he has a Exit BOR. Here a committee of adults and SPL review his scouting accomplishments and has an "exit interview" with him about his scouting experiences. This needs to also focus, just like all other BOR's, on his past accomplishments (of what he did for others?) and future scouting career (what are you going to do for others?) . What are his plans for adult training at all levels so he's ready when his son is, etc. Wood Badge discussion could also be included. Eagles are "expected" to give back to Scouting? Well, you have a far better chance of having this boy "give back" than a lot of Eagles make with some sort of "pledge" they make and immediately ignore.

 

Third, on the weekend following his 18th birthday, he crosses over yet one more time. Boy Scouts to Scoutering (is there such a word?) I don't think Scout Spirit should be as big an emphasis as Scouting Servant Leadership, where he is recognized as a valuable part of the program that will continue on in his adult years and the opportunity to help others in their scouting careers.

 

A review of his accomplishments, i.e. table of his scouting history, etc. just like ECOH would be appropriate, and testimonials from his buddies on how much his contribution to the troop meant especially those he may have mentored, could also apply.

 

There's a lot of things that mean a lot of different things to different people. You must know the boy well enough to know what is really important to him that may in fact be more important than an Eagle patch. I never reached Eagle as a boy, but I wear 2 Eagle Mentor pins on my dress shirt collar that mean more to me than any other award I have ever earned on my shirt including any WB beads or knots.

 

This birthday marks his passage into adulthood and what better place to recognize that than in Scouting where 7 years have been dedicated to getting him ready for that transition. Now is not the time to wallow in self-pity, but be recognized for how important he is to others now that he's reached adulthood.

 

Maybe the award could be the Leo Award, with Leo being one of the main characters in Herman Hess's book "Journey to the East". Kind of a good read about true leadership.

 

Stosh

 

Oh, yeah, one other thing... the gift from the troop. A coffee mug.

 

 

OMG, my daughter just sent me an appropriate example to use.

 

The Dr. Who award. A time lord, super hero that travels through time and spaced armed only with a sonic screwdriver, in his TARDIS space vehicle which looks like a Police Call Box where people can come for help and he is unique in that he has two hearts. Really kind of a nice symbol.

[qwazse]

All of these ideas are great. Exceptional scout spirit, really, is not looking for a great fanfare or a plaque. You just go up to a fella, shake his hand and say "Yo, you've demonstrated truly exceptional scout spirit." Say as much in front of the whole troop, and you've made your impact. Sure, you could set up a special SMC and BoR, but really that's so you have an impact on the troop adults. And, maybe this boy needs to reflect a little, so that would be one way of teaching him how to do it.

 

Then, like Stosh says, you invite him to join you in servant leadership. A "Dr. Who" award is a great idea.

 

Finally, there's no equality with this sort of thing. This boy gets it. You don't have to give it to another boy or even hint that it is available to another boy until the next one comes along who deserves it.

[perdidochas]

 

Scout #1: Earns eagle at 14 and leaves the troop.

Scout #2: Earns his eagle, but took a 3 year hiatus coming back only to get the rank.

Scout #3: Earns whatever rank he wants, and stays active and contributes for 7 years in the troop.

 

A scout is trustworth, loyal, helpful... Gimme #3 any day over the other two "eagles".

 

Stosh

Good point.

[perdidochas]

blw2, I wasn't thinking of the Eagle emblem, just a soaring eagle, but I like the idea of the First Class emblem. Better to stay away from eagles all together.

 

Stosh, I agree with you that an active 18 year old that "gets it" is worth more than the eagle rank, but this scout doesn't understand that. He really wanted the rank. That challenge was a huge motivation. Part of the problem is my troop puts a lot of emphasis on Eagle rank yet we don't know how to recognize scout spirit. We have an honor scout each COH but that's nothing compared to your own Eagle COH.

 

I guess the real question is how do we recognize exceptional scout spirit to the extent that we recognize Eagle? Eagle is easy to recognize - check boxes to measure progress, court of honor, patches, and speeches to show recognition. The problem with Eagle is that the most important part of Eagle, scout spirit, is buried under a ton of bureaucracy. Scout spirit isn't about doing the absolute bare minimum to get recognition. Doing 1200 lines of requirements for merit badges has little to do with an Eagle Charge or Oath.

 

Do I take this plaque and make it the troop Scout Spirit award and present it to scouts solely based on cheerful service and active participation? No nagging, no check boxes, no hand holding, no whining about requirements, just know what's right and do it. Present yourself to the committee and make your case whenever you want. They'll talk to other scouts to verify what you say and tell you if you meet the standard. If they say yes on your 18th birthday then you get a plaque, otherwise you can talk about how to improve yourself. This whole thing would just be a way to let the scouts know that scout spirit is highly valued.

MattR,

 

Did he really want the rank? If so, I think he would have been more aware of his timelines and his drop-dead date. That said, while Eagle is a nice bonus, I would view as Scout Spirit as the more important thing for his future.

[MattR]

Periochas, yes he really wanted the rank. His story is different than most. He didn't join scouts until 3 years ago. And he didn't wake up until fairly late in the process. He got First Class with 17 months to go. I've seen too many Eagles that got there because mom and dad were hovercraft and watched these details. This scout's parents didn't understand what was going on. So I know this scout wanted it. He wants the recognition. That has been a driving force and a good one to bring out his character. I agree with you that his character is worth more than a patch, but he won't see that for a long time.

 

I don't have a problem using recognition to motivate a boy to develop his character. Adults have Silver Beavers, District Awards of Merit, and Position of the Year awards, so I'd like to let this scout know, and for a bunch of others to see, that character is important. If I were a scout and I compared the Eagle award and all the hoopla with it to a handshake from the SM, it would be very clear what has higher importance, yet this is backward to what I'd like it to be. Ideally, I'd just hold all scouts to the higher character bar, and maybe I might, but for the scout that just wants to do the right thing and is not interested in the patch, I'd like to recognize that so they find a reason to exercise their character.

 

While I like Dr Who, the First Class emblem sounds much better to me. Giving him a sonic screw driver patch along with it would be fun, though.

[Eagledad]

It's interesting to watch the discussion of this wonderful young man. We have many scouts (my older son included) who were so busy with scouting that they didn't do their EBOR untill a couple of weeks before their 18th birthday. What I find so interesting is most of those guys (my son included) could have cared less about an award. I agree this scout needs some recognition and I don't have an answer to the original question, but I would be careful that this recognition isn't more important for the adults than the scout. What ever you choose to do for this scout, you are setting a model for all the other scouts in the troop. So be careful what you are trying to say. Barry

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

If that Eagle Scout would like a rank patch, I have one I can send him.

[Engineer61]

If he's really that good ... give him yours. He'd treasure it far more that one bought for him ... and you can go to the Scout store and replace yours.

[jpstodwftexas]

Perhaps all Units should come up with an Aging out Ceremony..Honoring each Scout,s Journey through Scouting..

I know the Saying is "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle" but there is No Shame in Saying "Once a Scout, Always a Scout"..Scouters should continue to Live by the Scout Oath and Law For the Rest of their Lives. Why Stop after you age out...Continue to do a Good Deed Daily.

 

BSA Should do more to retain Scouters past 18...for Life.

 

I know Traditionally It has been "unOffical" and basically expected for Scouters to Age out..Leave Scouting...Get Married, have Kids and Then Return to Scouting..and Stay till they Age out and repeat the Process.I fell into this unspoken Cycle...I returned when My last Girlfriend's son started Tiger Cubs..Looking Back I feel I let the program down because I could have contributed over those 30 somethings years I missed out on. I wanted to return to Scouting but like Most, I used the excuse "I don't have Kids in Scouting to stay away." I felt people would look down on me and think I was Weird being around Kids without Kids of "My Own."

 

I will say there is one Regret in My Life...Missing all those years in Scouting. All the Missed chances to help Youth enjoy life..Missed Camping Trips, Missed Camp Fires, Missed Summer Camps...Missed Chances to positively influence Youth in a Good way.

 

We should be trying to retain Scouters for Life..Not till they age out