Can I bring my younger son to scout campouts?

[moosetracker]

Blake, you know there is no one size fits all formula in scouting.

 

Some troops are more adult rec club than boy scout troop, others have near zero adult involvement

 

I am a HUGE opponent of the Adult/Family Scout troop, there is a huge difference between an ASM bringing his scout son along VS ASM bringing Wife, and 3 daughters or worse yet 15 year old daughter.

 

Again, I would ask the PLC what their opinion is.......Then live by their decision.

Well your PLC will gladly welcome the 15 year old daughter !

[moosetracker]

I'm throwing the BS flag. Heaven forbid a boy goes along on a boy scout trip. By all means, keep those younger boys at home so they can't experience what a troop actually does. Keep them home and do the arts and crafts like they are supposed to. Once they get it in their heads there is more to the program than that, the whole thing could collapse.

 

Are your programs that shallow that an ASM is an integral part of any trip?

Why not just invite the whole pack out on your troop outings.. There are rules against anyone except Webelos staying overnight on a troop outing, and then only with a parent present.. But, our troops can ask the younger scouts to the daytime part of an event, but they can not spend the night.. I guess they could if the Pack calls it a Pack campout, and we just happen to be camping next to the troop.. But it has to be a full authorized Pack campout, not just the wolf den, or a lone wolf scout, whose parent is trying to use their position to sneak him into something that he is not of an age to be attending.

 

You don't like your Packs activities, work to change it, Have a pack campout every month if you live in the warmer climates, if live in the north, sorry but it is cabin camping or no camping from October to May.

[Stosh]

I agree jblake.. Amazing how many people have made a troop outing into a Pack family campout.. Totally unfair to the boys in the troop, both the ones who want to get away from their family and their family tags along, and the boys whose family doesn't tag along and they still have toddlers biting him at the ankles because Sammy & Johnny brought their families with 3 and 4 year olds in tow.. That troop would need to be very, very hard up for Adult leadership to ever accept falling into this type of disarray.

 

Our family didn't have younger children as my son was an only child. Still when the troop camp, my husband went as an adult leader, my son went and I stayed home, even though I have camped since I was a child.. Sorry, troop camping is not family camping, and I think the boy scout age appropriate chart states by age what is and is not acceptable.

 

On top of that, by the way the OP wrote it, this is simply someone thinking his young son is exceptional, and wants to accelerate his scouting career.. Why not an 8 year old Eagle..

Moose,

 

I was responding to Basement's comments that without him there would be no outdoor program. That's cutting the adult leadership too thin and jeopardizes the program of a viable troop. Maybe this troop is not all that viable. It doesn't refer to any other troop where multiple leaders can keep the program flowing even if one or two adults with children can't make it at that time.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

[Basementdweller]

I'm throwing the BS flag. Heaven forbid a boy goes along on a boy scout trip. By all means, keep those younger boys at home so they can't experience what a troop actually does. Keep them home and do the arts and crafts like they are supposed to. Once they get it in their heads there is more to the program than that, the whole thing could collapse.

 

Are your programs that shallow that an ASM is an integral part of any trip?

Yes our program is that thin on adult leadership that an ASM staying home would result in a canceled trip.

[Basementdweller]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

I have two ASM's, one is on rotating shifts so it is a crap shoot as to whether he will be off on any given weekends, so what if the other is sick or can't make it.

 

Cancelled outing or try to recruit a parent to attend as well.

[moosetracker]

I agree jblake.. Amazing how many people have made a troop outing into a Pack family campout.. Totally unfair to the boys in the troop, both the ones who want to get away from their family and their family tags along, and the boys whose family doesn't tag along and they still have toddlers biting him at the ankles because Sammy & Johnny brought their families with 3 and 4 year olds in tow.. That troop would need to be very, very hard up for Adult leadership to ever accept falling into this type of disarray.

 

Our family didn't have younger children as my son was an only child. Still when the troop camp, my husband went as an adult leader, my son went and I stayed home, even though I have camped since I was a child.. Sorry, troop camping is not family camping, and I think the boy scout age appropriate chart states by age what is and is not acceptable.

 

On top of that, by the way the OP wrote it, this is simply someone thinking his young son is exceptional, and wants to accelerate his scouting career.. Why not an 8 year old Eagle..

jblake my comment was mostly to Basement, who stated my argument did not hold water, because he took his son in a situation where the troop was dieing out and it was him and his son, or the event didn't happen.. Which I am stating my argument isn't against him because he meets my exclusion of the troop better be in dire need to agree to this..

But, that holds with your statement also.. You both are making up these "maybe" statements of talking yourself into a scenario that it is perfectly acceptable due to the troop is in dire need, if he doesn't go the trip is canceled and the troop folds.. Which I state, that is the only reason to even consider this.. BUT.. the OP does not say one word, that anything like that is the reason.. It is just because thinks it would be great to spend time with wolf scout in this environment. That is all the reasoning he is presenting.. You guys are supplying the what-if dying troop scenarios in order to give him the green light.

[moosetracker]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

And... AGAIN where does the OP have any back story like the one you just gave Jblake.. Again.. he just states he want to take his wolf son on troop events for the "fun" of it..

[NeverAnEagle]

 

I'm all for brining the younger son. I did it for two years and it motivated my younger son and made him ever more eager to join the "big boys." In fact my youngest has his eagle board of review tonight; my older son is still star.

 

Go and have fun. After all, scouting is supposed to be fun.

[duckfoot]

I'm throwing the BS flag. Heaven forbid a boy goes along on a boy scout trip. By all means, keep those younger boys at home so they can't experience what a troop actually does. Keep them home and do the arts and crafts like they are supposed to. Once they get it in their heads there is more to the program than that, the whole thing could collapse.

 

Are your programs that shallow that an ASM is an integral part of any trip?

Moose, OP wants to bring his younger son on a troop campout. Just because the younger son is a wolf makes no difference in the world. That has no bearing on the son and dad camping with the troop, he's just being a son, not a scout.

 

Base, being thin on adult leadership is not the same as having a shallow program. Thin I can understand, shallow just means the boys aren't being allowed to lead, the adults have to birddog them to death....

[Stosh]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

Okay, you have SM (adult #1) and ASM (adult #2) and his small son along on a trip. SM isn't happy about it, but he goes along because he needs ASM for 2-deep. Well the boys want to do a 15 mile day hike. Well, small son can't walk that far, so the boys can't do that. Well the older boys (300' away) decide to do an activity, but Adults and small son are off by themselves and small son is now bored to death by 10:00 am, and wants to go home. According to BSA policy, that activity is now cancelled, ASM has to take small son home so he can play his video games.

 

 

Sure these are all made up scenarios, but I've been around youth for 40+ years and know that when the best laid plans of mice and men are in place, there's always something out there that can jump up bite you in the butt and you never saw it coming.

 

One boy twisting an ankle at Philmont will basically bring that day's hike to a screeching halt. And that's even with everyone that is supposed to be there is.

 

Sometimes problems find you, but why go looking for them?

 

Stosh

[duckfoot]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

Tell me where it says you need adult leadership at all on that 15 mile day hike? ASM and son stay back at camp or go on as much of that hike as they want. SM and the rest of the troop carry on. Where's the issue?

[Eagle92]

I am basing my opinion on a negative expereince. As a Scout, we had a trip turn into a "family" trip b/c we could not get enough drivers. Long story short, it was a nightmare because after a year of planning for the trip, we couldn't do what we set out to do, and the siblings caused major damage to the place we were staying.

[Stosh]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

Gotta read the whole story. The 15 mile hike wasn't the problem. The problem lies in the fact that at any time the little guy wants to go home, HE makes the decision for the whole group.

 

Stosh

[moosetracker]

Seriously?

 

What do a Tiger Cub and Senior in high school have in common? A single parent maybe? Why is the troop putting that kind of pressure on the parent? Either you find a babysitter and show up or the troop will have to cancel it's outing.

 

C'mon, is that really fair? A program needs to be a lot more robust than that. We all have conflicts on our calendars. Flexibility and coordination is needed to make it happen.

 

My wife will be out of town that weekend, and I have to stay home with Little Johnny. I can drive up a few of the boys, but I can't stay. I can come back on Sunday to pick them up.

 

Yes, I have done that myself. My boy has two sisters.

 

Jeff

Not only that, although troops are different.. I know in my sons' troop, the older boys had some difficulty with the younger incoming scouts.. Sometimes the little guys were fine, and cool.. But, if they start whining, or being too goofy or are reluctant about doing work, or make an extra mess and then walk off for someone else to fix.. That's for 10.5 to 11 year olds.. They just wouldn't be more tolerant for a kid of 6 or 7 who shouldn't even be on the trip.

 

Then also my sons' troop for a long time had great SM's but the last year (and for several years after) they had a SM who was there for his sons only.. Everything was for their son's advancement, what their son wanted to do, it was just known.. It was not well received.. Even when he was not SM but just ASM and he wiggled for the privilege of his sons the boys knew it, and it was not well received. This guy was SM for over 5 years, and except for his sons ECOH's all the other scouts who made eagle called and asked for past SM's to please come back to be part of their ceremony and either gave the current SM nothing in the program to do, or they gave them something very minimal, and only because some adult said it was not courteous to not give him a part in the program.. His son's really did not fare much better in the minds of the boys in this troop.. They were not seen as 'earning' their eagle, but more having the road paved for them by Daddy..

 

So, yes, it is my inferring my own personal history to this story, but at least I have got the OP statement, and I am not making backstories up about "What if".. But, if the outing is not about his interest in the boys of the troop having a good trip, or the good of the troop, and nothing this being the only option, there being no other.. But, simply that bringing his scout to something he is really not old enough to be at, is all about his relationship with his son.. Then, sorry, this would be an ASM I would not ask to attend the event unless he was the last option. He is not there for the benefit of the troop. Boy's of a troop know when their adult Leaders are giving their son unfair preferential treatment, that the only reason they take a position is to give their son's some preferential treatment. Their resentment does not go away with time, it just gets worse.

 

Now, if you did bring your son's to a BS outing due to it being the only option you had, and you thought it was best for the troop and best for the boys of the troop, to deal with your young child then miss the trip.. I would think the boys of your troop will figure it out. It would be through your young child only coming when it was absolutely necessary, not whenever possible. It would be with you working to keep the child occupied and out of the older boys way, rather then expecting the older boys to curtail their plans to cater to him, or to expect them to take him with whenever possible. It would be by you verbally and in deed, showing them that the trip was all about the Boys in the troop, and not about getting your young son to be a boys scout years before he was mentally and physically and maturity wise ready to be.

 

Bottom line, your reasoning for bringing young child with you is key.. If it is for the benefit of your young son and you.. Then you have lost me.. BSA rules aren't bent for those reason.. BSA rules are enforced, emboldened, and printed on your forehead.