Troop Trouble Maker . . .

[NeverAnEagle]

Agreed its SM/Parent time, but as ASM for stabbing with a pencil and drawing blood I would have confiscated the Totin Chit and not worried about corners.

Taking someones crutches is quite un-scout-behaviour. Special class on 1st Aid maybe? No hazzing I know, I have old school ideas ...

 

In 2.5 years as a leader we/I only ever had 1 scout that was removed from the troop (Leaders decided, told the Committee who told the parents).

But that is and should only be the very last resort.

 

So how to manipulate a lil manipilator to stop manipulating? ...

Oldscout448:

Around here Methodist are not considered “mainline.†They are considered very liberal because they allow women to be pastors. In fact the current pastor is a woman.

It seems the new parents wanted their kids to be in an “active troop,†they just don't want all the hassel that comes with an active troop.

 

moosetracker:

Council is trying to prevent anymore people from joining Trail Life. We've already had a couple entire units make the switch and those units that remain have lost a lot of boys.

 

Alsoâ€â€At the time of the other thread I thought it was just me they were targeting, but I've since learned that the Native American fellow was officially removed when his son was a weblo, so before he even joined the troop. He got a letter in September saying that he is no longer allowed to help with the troop even “unofficially†as other parents do. Dale was removed in May and Sally removed in August, both this year.

 

ScoutNut:

Council's position is that you are free to be another religion, as long as you find someone of that religion to charter you. (Jews in a troop chartered by a Synagogue, Native American Traditionalist in a unit Chartered by the Tribe, etc.) We've been drawing fire because we will allow anyone one, of any religion to join.

 

We were official removed because we were labeled “deviant.†Deviants are not allowed to work with the youth.

Qwazse:

When I was removed we write letters to National, but National never even bothered to reply.

[NeverAnEagle]

~Now the Committee wants to remove the rank of the current PL ---- What do I do now?

 

I hope by "rank" you really mean his title/position of PL, and not his BSA rank (2nd Class, 1st Class, Star, etc). Once a BSA rank has been awarded - no one - except the BSA National office, has the ability to remove it.

 

Certainly not your Troop's committee.

 

Talk to your Scoutmaster - NOW.

 

BTW - what was done with Alex for his multiple incidents of shoving, and (especially) Jacob for shoving, stabbing, tripping, stealing, and punching?

 

James might have incited the incidents, but these boys were the ones to actually demonstrate, CLEARLY, what it means to NOT live by the Scout Oath and Law. The excuse of someone else "making" them act like aggressive bullies does not fly in my book. It was THEIR choice to act the way they did.

qwazse

The problem is they were here for elections and are mad because none of their boys were eligible to hold an office. Troop rule is: FIRST CLASS OR SHUT UP. Boys are not allowed to hold leadership positions until they achieve the rank of first class. Only boys who are 1st class or higher get a say in which activities are planned for the year, and if space is limited the boys who are 1st class get first dibs on trips.

 

Alex is a whopping tenderfoot! And his dear mum and da think he should be patrol leader, and unfortunately, so did a lot of his chums.

[NeverAnEagle]

Troop Meeting Tomorrow promises to be light.

 

The CC sent out an email stating that parents who show up will have an opportunity to learn the reasons behind the troop rules and traditions, AND why it's never a good idea for a brand new scout to be PL.

 

Wish us luck!

[00Eagle]

Agreed its SM/Parent time, but as ASM for stabbing with a pencil and drawing blood I would have confiscated the Totin Chit and not worried about corners.

Taking someones crutches is quite un-scout-behaviour. Special class on 1st Aid maybe? No hazzing I know, I have old school ideas ...

 

In 2.5 years as a leader we/I only ever had 1 scout that was removed from the troop (Leaders decided, told the Committee who told the parents).

But that is and should only be the very last resort.

 

So how to manipulate a lil manipilator to stop manipulating? ...

There is a process where a council removal of membership can be appealed at the regional level. I'm not sure how to invoke the process.

[Nike]

Agreed its SM/Parent time, but as ASM for stabbing with a pencil and drawing blood I would have confiscated the Totin Chit and not worried about corners.

Taking someones crutches is quite un-scout-behaviour. Special class on 1st Aid maybe? No hazzing I know, I have old school ideas ...

 

In 2.5 years as a leader we/I only ever had 1 scout that was removed from the troop (Leaders decided, told the Committee who told the parents).

But that is and should only be the very last resort.

 

So how to manipulate a lil manipilator to stop manipulating? ...

Segregating kids by religion isnt an official BSA policy, and I'd be calling national on that with the pros' names. The CO has the right to only accept kids from their organization, but Councils shouldn't be mandating it. Where are you generally in the wider world?

[moosetracker]

Agreed its SM/Parent time, but as ASM for stabbing with a pencil and drawing blood I would have confiscated the Totin Chit and not worried about corners.

Taking someones crutches is quite un-scout-behaviour. Special class on 1st Aid maybe? No hazzing I know, I have old school ideas ...

 

In 2.5 years as a leader we/I only ever had 1 scout that was removed from the troop (Leaders decided, told the Committee who told the parents).

But that is and should only be the very last resort.

 

So how to manipulate a lil manipilator to stop manipulating? ...

How do you STOP people from leaving?? This isn't a prison. And with their 'holier then thou', heavy handed (not to mention against policy) methods, not only will they loose people, they will not attract new people either. I would think their policies probably attracted an abnormal 'holier then thou' membership, and when BSA changed policy that did not enforce it, the people their attitude attracted are now fleeing to where they can still get that strict authoritarian rule.. Don't know why though.. Dollars to Donuts, even when the acceptance of homosexual youth kick in next year, your council will ignore the rule and kick them out anyway.. If they see no problem with kicking out anyone who is not Christian, then what is the problem with doing likewise to a few gay kids?

[qwazse]

Troop Meeting Tomorrow promises to be light.

 

The CC sent out an email stating that parents who show up will have an opportunity to learn the reasons behind the troop rules and traditions, AND why it's never a good idea for a brand new scout to be PL.

 

Wish us luck!

Hope everyone took the CC's "Here's how it's gonna be..." with the appropriate grain of salt and is now at home helping those kids master a first class skill or two!

 

BTW, there's nothing inherently wrong with a tenderfoot PL in 1st year, but it can limit what the patrol will do relative the other patrols (other patrols being likely more seasoned and high adventure oriented). If the SM would rather PL's be a little more balanced in skill sets, then things like FC rules come in handy. Bottom line: it's the SM's call. Everyone one else falls in line. Period.

[Basementdweller]

So I gotta ask here.

 

 

If adults are intervening when the lads have issues, what are they learning??

 

Isn't the goal of scouting is letting the lads figure it out for themselves?????

 

 

Had a lad who knew he would never be elected PL manipulate the Patrol election so he would be APL. The funniest thing happened.. They guy he got elected didn't want him as APL because he was a pain in the butt and he knew that he wouldn't support him running the patrol.

 

Given a chance the boys will get it right , eventually.

[qwazse]

So I gotta ask here.

 

 

If adults are intervening when the lads have issues, what are they learning??

 

Isn't the goal of scouting is letting the lads figure it out for themselves?????

 

 

Had a lad who knew he would never be elected PL manipulate the Patrol election so he would be APL. The funniest thing happened.. They guy he got elected didn't want him as APL because he was a pain in the butt and he knew that he wouldn't support him running the patrol.

 

Given a chance the boys will get it right , eventually.

What the boys are learning is exactly what the adults have learned through their council's policy of apartheid:

 

If you disagree with who the Almighty has anointed to take of your boys, you can ignore what the Holy Spirit might be trying to teach you (and him/her) and give the fella/lady the boot.

 

Scouting takes patience ... lots of it. Americans don't like waiting for anything (especially if you can get it at 50% off if you hustle away from the table right after desert. !)

[NeverAnEagle]

Troop Meeting Tomorrow promises to be light.

 

The CC sent out an email stating that parents who show up will have an opportunity to learn the reasons behind the troop rules and traditions, AND why it's never a good idea for a brand new scout to be PL.

 

Wish us luck!

quazse: The meeting was a disaster. The parents had issues with nearly every troop rule.

 

First Class or shut up was interoperated as: "you're deliberately hold OUR BOY back"

Everyone eats the same food was interpreted as: "your making OUR BOY starve."

Driver gets to choose what we listen to was interpreted as: "infringing on OUR BOYS religious rights."

 

While the parents were in the other room complaining about troop rules James and Jacob worked Dylan and his mom into a tizzy by saying that she was a "welfare momma" and that "no Christian man would want her because she won't live a proper life." When Jacob and James were told they had to apologize their parents said there was no need for the boys to apologize because they were simply stating the truth. Dylan's mom announced that they are leaving the troop.

[NeverAnEagle]

So I gotta ask here.

 

 

If adults are intervening when the lads have issues, what are they learning??

 

Isn't the goal of scouting is letting the lads figure it out for themselves?????

 

 

Had a lad who knew he would never be elected PL manipulate the Patrol election so he would be APL. The funniest thing happened.. They guy he got elected didn't want him as APL because he was a pain in the butt and he knew that he wouldn't support him running the patrol.

 

Given a chance the boys will get it right , eventually.

BD: I'm not seeing a lot of adult intervention. The boys crossed over in April. In September we had one lad who wasn't working well in his patrol and was moved. Problems continued in that patrol until November when anxious parents wanted to remove the PL who is Star and replace him with their boy who was a tenderfoot. We have been trying to prevent that from happening, but also need to help the PL keep the patrol functioning because he has more on his plate than he can handle with this group of boys. Offering help to someone in need is a good thing. Letting the patrol flounder because a bunch of 11 & 12 year olds think they know more than the 14, 15 & 16 year olds would be disastrous and the boys wouldn't learn anything.

[qwazse]

Troop Meeting Tomorrow promises to be light.

 

The CC sent out an email stating that parents who show up will have an opportunity to learn the reasons behind the troop rules and traditions, AND why it's never a good idea for a brand new scout to be PL.

 

Wish us luck!

Sorry that things have turned so far south.

 

First of all, James and Jacob need to read Habakkuk. A Godly man marries the woman his Lord picks for him, no matter what. But I digress.

 

If I were SM, James and Jacob would be dropped until they can come back with soap in their mouths able to say "courteous" and "kind." Parents can pound sand or offer Dylan's mom a $20/hour job with benefits. Your UC should give them a New Unit Application and tell them to go find CO that will support their values and start their on troop.

 

I don't even want to know what the driver was listening to. That's a whole thread in itself.

[Twocubdad]

Troop Meeting Tomorrow promises to be light.

 

The CC sent out an email stating that parents who show up will have an opportunity to learn the reasons behind the troop rules and traditions, AND why it's never a good idea for a brand new scout to be PL.

 

Wish us luck!

James, Jacob and parents shouldn't see another sunrise as members of the troop.

[NeverAnEagle]

Troop Meeting Tomorrow promises to be light.

 

The CC sent out an email stating that parents who show up will have an opportunity to learn the reasons behind the troop rules and traditions, AND why it's never a good idea for a brand new scout to be PL.

 

Wish us luck!

Qwazse: Since no one can agree on a radio station we listen to books on tape. The problem was that there were 3 drivers and none of them were listening to Christian fiction. The choices were: Ashes, Lord of the Flies, or The Ice Bound Land; all YA, but not specifically Christian.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not SM.

[NeverAnEagle]

Sometimes the smallest can be the biggest manipulator, and it sometimes is simply a way to compensate for their size. Aren't you happy your sons are not in the Owls patrol. I feel for the PL who is getting the blame for this.

Moosetracker: oops wrong spot