Charter Org approval for MC

[pamaha]

I know that the Charter Organization must approve all adult leaders for troop, but does the same hold true for adults who simply want to be on the committee? We are undergoing some turmoil within our troop and suddenly, all the parents who could not be bothered to be involved when we needed them are lining up to sign on as MC, just to undermine the current committee and program. Can the charter org deny these applications? Our mandatory positions are filled, and in fact we held an open nomination/election with everyone present and there were no unfavorable comments regarding any of the positions that were filled.

[scoutldr]

The answer to all questions is yes. All adult leader applications must be approved by the committee chairman, the chartered organization and the council. Anyone who is "just on the committee" should be a trained, registered leader.

[ManyIrons]

Interesting dilemma.

 

Not sure what grounds could be used to deny a parent to join the committee. Without question, the troop is "owned" by the chartering organization, but the Troop Committee Guidebook states "there is no maximum limit to the number of troop committee members".

 

I agree with Scoutldr, in fact my first reaction was "Good. Sign 'em up and get 'em trained". Depending on what your troop's program is, you just might have a whole flock of converts. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut I can't find anything in the guide that says committee members must be trained. It states that the COR "encourages training" and the Training Coordinator is supposed to "ensure troop leaders and committee members have opportunities for training".

 

I suppose the CO could say that the "inn is full", but I don't know if they could make it stick. Sounds like a good question for our resident professional.

[hotdesk]

I know that our Committee has all the positions filled except for Training Coordinator. All those people DO come to ALL Committee Meetings along with the COR.

 

We do also have parents that are registred Committee Members. The only problem with them is that they do not come enough to know what is actually going on in the troop to make informed decisions, however it is a big help.

 

The reason it is a help is because they are parents of scouts who are either new or in the 'middle' aged group. The people holding onto required postions all have sons that are Life Scouts or don't have any sons in the troop at all. Therefore they just need to really worry about the present and not about the future, like the parent Committee Members do.

[Bob White]

scoutldr is corect.

"Not sure what grounds could be used to deny a parent to join the committee."

Any the charter organization wishes to give or none at all.

Parents do not own units their sons are members, if registered they are volunteers, but ONLY the CO is the owner.

 

"I can't find anything in the guide that says committee members must be trained."

Nor will you find anything that says they "must" be trained. Scoutldr said correctly "should be trained" as should all registered adults. How can a committee members support a program without know what the program methods, aims and mission are?

 

"We do also have parents that are registred Committee Members. The only problem with them is that they do not come enough to know what is actually going on in the troop to make informed decisions, however it is a big help."

How could anyone who is making uninformed decisions actually help? You make two distinctions in committee members. There are those who have specific responsibilities who regularly participate, and those without specific responsibilities that rarely show-up. Do you see the correlation? Don't ask people to be on the troop committee. Ask them to do a specific job and regisater them on the committee.

 

Bob White

[dsteele]

Bob White is correct in that the chartered organization can deny approval to any leader candidate for any reason or no reason for a position in its unit. That doesn't mean the individual can not register elsewhere in another chartered organizaiton's unit or in the BSA.

 

Someone else suggested that a candidate for registration in the BSA had to be approved by the chartered organization, the Committee Chairman, and the BSA -- this used to be true. Now it's not quite true. Someone wishing to become a registered adult in a unit in the BSA has to be approved by the Chartered Organization, the Committee Chairman -- and Accepted by the BSA. Accepted is different than approved. The BSA has to approve council or district positions (including merit badge counselor,) but we merely accept unit approvals. Accept also means we can deny -- for no reason or any reason.

 

I'll also say what should have been said to pamaha right away --- Welcome to the forums, pamaha! Your input is valued.

 

DS

[Twocubdad]

Welcome to the campfire, Pam.

 

No one has mentioned that in addition to the COR or IH signing the adult application, the Committee Chairman's signature is also required. So if you have a situation where a group of parents are trying to "pack" the committee to to exert more influence over the program, the chairman can decline to approve their applications.

 

Whether or not that's the appropriate the way to handle the situation is another question.

[KA6BSA]

It is also worth mentioning that the three references on the adult applications must be filled in and checked. Sometimes in the past this was not done rigorously but currently in our council all references are being checked through the telephone numbers filled in there. It could be another reason to reject an application.

 

Seems like if there is an effort under way to "pack" the committee for a ruling on some hot issue, you need to figure out the root cause of that. Usually troops suffer the opposite case where not enough people take time or energy to attend the committee meetings.

 

[KA6BSA]

I had another thought after re-reading the original post... if this effort to "undermine the current committee and program" really seems to run against what you think is right as BSA teaches, then get ahold of your Unit Commissioner and invite him to the committee meeting. He can give some perspective and advice on the issue and maybe support the chairperson, or at least evaluate what the problem is and maybe offer some district-level help to settle the case. You never know, once the problem is solved some of those who rushed to sign up might stay around and do some constructive volunteering for the troop!

[pamaha]

KA6BSA hit on the problem...this troop once had a CO that was nowhere to be seen, nor did they supply a meeting place for socuts. SM signed all applications that went to council and the SM also ran the committee meetings with the asst SM's. There was little, or no parent invlvement. Two years ago there was an influx of transfers from other states, counties, etc. and all new parents volunteered to help out in any way. Meanwhile, a local church, who already had the Cubs that feed into this troop asked our committee to discuss the possibility of bringing the troop over. In a nearly unanimous decision, we transfered the troop to a new CO. The new CO has now separated MC's and SM positions since there are adequate adults who are willing to take on committee responsibilities. The "old gang" wants things back the way they were with the SM running both sides of the program and they think that if they all sign up as MC's they can change the rules. This has already been addressed at toop committee level, district level and local council, yet these parents from the old regime are STILL at it, trying to undermine every move the committee makes. Now mind you, the SM and the boys have not been denied ANYTHING they have requested, but there is apparently one bad apple spoiling it for everyone. Our CO has decided, after much discussion with council, that the only resolution at this point is for the troop to split. Apparently, this is not alwasy a bad thing in that you now have 2 separate strong troops.

 

SO....the issue to deny the parents MC status stems promarily with the fact that they are not behaving in a manner that is acceptable with our CO and certainly does not conform to the scout oath and law...oh, did I mention that this same bad apple tried to get the kids to overturn the elections the boys had last year when his son was not selected as SPL???

 

It is a horrible situation and unfortunatley, the boys are suffering as the SM and his merry bunch of cohorts are spending more time starting trouble with the committee than working with the boys!

[ManyIrons]

Wow living and learning!

 

Pamaha: A belated welcome from a fellow newbie. Glad to hear your CO has a solution to the problem. I hope its all resolved soon and positively.

 

Bob White: With regard to the training comments we agree. I noted the lack of a training requirement as potential problem with my initial sign em up reaction. I was very surprised to find out that the training isnt required and was attempting to point out that that type of solution probably wouldnt be much help in pamahas case. Apologies if I didnt articulate it adequately.

 

How can committee members support a program without knowing what the program methods, aims and mission are? Again we agree. Ive taken every training class I could and got copies of the manuals/handbooks for the every position Ive held. To me it is a requirement if I want to do the job correctly I need the proper tools.

 

DSteele/Bob White: Without intending to hijack this thread, please help me with another one. Is the charter issued to the CO directly from BSA or is it issued by the council? I guess my real question is who does the CO answer to?

 

Thanks

 

[Bob White]

The Council is an independent non-profit corporation that is responsible for delivering the scouting program to a specific geographic area. It charters with National each year just as the Cos do.

 

 

The CO does not answer to anyone in scouting. they are a contractural partner. They agree to follow the program methods and policies of the BSA. The BSA agrees to give specific support to the Cos to help establish, grow, and maitain scouting iin that community. They also are in a way the BSA themselves as they are by charter the voting members of the District and Council as well as the make up of the national executive committee.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[pamaha]

Thanks, all for your valuable info! While it is never a pleasant task to ask someone to leave, at this point, we have no choice. The main issue, to me, is that all our boys are suffering and some people keep forgetting that WE ARE HERE FOR THE BOYS. It will be an interesting meeting to say the least, and I will keep you all posted on the outcome if you are interested.

Thanks for not making my question seem like stupid one. I really appreciate it!(This message has been edited by pamaha)

[dsteele]

I'll enhance what my friend Bob is saying regarding the issuance of charters to local organizations.

 

The council's charter from the national organization gives it the authority to grant charters. The charters are an endorsement to use the BSA program, but all approval comes from the local council following the guidelines of the national organization.

 

The local council is the "front line" of the national organization (bad analogy, but it works.)

 

If a council refuses to maintain BSA standards in granting charters, the council is in danger of losing its charter with the national council and with it, it's ability to function.

 

So if a chartered organization writes a letter or tells the local council that it will not uphold the standards of the BSA, the chartered organization should not be a bit surprised when the charter application is denied by the local council.

 

DS