When must the scout quit trying to raise funds for his Eagle Project?

[Sentinel947]

I have noticed in the last couple decades a directional shift in Eagle projects to be more structure building requiring significant material cost and expertise well beyond that of a scout. In the past, projects were more labor intensive requiring the candidate to organize other scouts (and some adults) to accomplish a significant task, any cost was usually minor and often the benefiting organization would pony up that small amount.

 

In all of your estimations, what percentage of projects require significant fundraising? Have you noticed a difference from years past?

I agree with this assessment.

[qwazse]

I have noticed in the last couple decades a directional shift in Eagle projects to be more structure building requiring significant material cost and expertise well beyond that of a scout. In the past, projects were more labor intensive requiring the candidate to organize other scouts (and some adults) to accomplish a significant task, any cost was usually minor and often the benefiting organization would pony up that small amount.

 

In all of your estimations, what percentage of projects require significant fundraising? Have you noticed a difference from years past?

Most of our projects do *not* require significant fundraising. Many of our communities have funds for materials, but not for labor, or leadership! A boy can go to his town hall and ask what needs to be done.

 

Now sometimes, a boy's vision is for a project that lacks money. But, we try to help a boy understand that there are a variety of possibilities and he doesn't necessarily need to have one with a fundraising component.

[fred johnson]

Ya know there are times I'd just let something be. This is between the scout and his parents. My limit would be that the scout is done and should not use scout or troop meetings for fundraising or troop resources. But if the scout wants to ask neighbors or others for help paying for the project, that's up to him.

[SSScout]

Ya know there are times I'd just let something be. This is between the scout and his parents. My limit would be that the scout is done and should not use scout or troop meetings for fundraising or troop resources. But if the scout wants to ask neighbors or others for help paying for the project, that's up to him.

Thank you FJ. It is an "Eagle Scout Project". If the Scout did not raise enough funds to complete the project before the deadline (!), and the parents fronted the extra cash,

then it is up to the Scout and his parents to determine if he (the Scout) needs some more personal (underline) fundraising. If I was ASKED to donate to a post hoc project, I'd certainly like to see the bookkeeping and want to know the rep of the folks doing the asking. And, then,too, we don't know the whole situation.

 

When I bought my first house, I was very proud of myself, spoke to all the agents and lawyers and banks involved in the days before closing, had my budget lined up neat. I invited my dad to closing and he and I were going out to lunch to celebrate. When the bottom line was presented, it was $3.000. more than had been predicted before.

I was angry/mad/unbelieving, but no one could explain what had changed . I had a choice: walk away from the sale, or ask my dad for help. He took out his check book (how did he know to bring it?) and I was able to walk out a proud property owner. If I didn't pay him "back" in cash (which I think I did), I certainly paid it "forward" in other ways .

Sometimes we have to let the parents help.

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

Yet another case of the parents "buying" Eagle. I truly hate when parents pay for the project. A huge part of the project is the budget, fundraising, and how to deal with unexpected issues, including a lack of funding. Honestly, I'd like to see a ironclad statement from BSA forbidding friends and family from underwriting eagle projects. The project is a learning tool, and a test of leadership; when families pay the project all benefit to the scout is removed.

[jpstodwftexas]

I'd like to see a ironclad statement from BSA forbidding friends and family from underwriting eagle projects. The project is a learning tool, and a test of leadership; when families pay the project all benefit to the scout is removed.

 

You want the same rule for Things like James E West and Other Monetary based Awards?

What do you have against where the money comes from?

Should we Require the Scout to get a Job and pay for everything themselves? That would change the types of projects Scouts do now days and stop the Majority of "Out Doing" we do now days..

A Scout can arrange a Community Service Projects or they can arrange to pay for a Display they Build out of Pocket to Honor themselves.

 

.The Question was when should the Scout stop requesting additional funding...simple...when project is completed.

[Horizon]

I have noticed in the last couple decades a directional shift in Eagle projects to be more structure building requiring significant material cost and expertise well beyond that of a scout. In the past, projects were more labor intensive requiring the candidate to organize other scouts (and some adults) to accomplish a significant task, any cost was usually minor and often the benefiting organization would pony up that small amount.

 

In all of your estimations, what percentage of projects require significant fundraising? Have you noticed a difference from years past?

I have seen this as well. A lot of school structures, benches and pens for the animal shelter, etc. The Council wants something to physically exist upon completion.

 

My son did trail building - his direct costs were covered by donated food from local stores. His Board told him that he should have included the cost of gas for the drivers to get to the trailhead.

[Horizon]

Loans to be covered by donations are not unknown in the real world. That said, this seems to be an issue between the Scout and the benefactor. I would review it on a case-by-case basis.

 

From the Project Workbook: The Fundraising Application

If your fundraising effort involves contributions only from the beneficiary or you, your parents or relatives, your unit or its

chartered organization, or parents or members in your unit, submitting the fundraising application is not necessary. If you

will be obtaining money or materials from any other sources, you must submit a completed application to the local council

service center.

 

This is interesting to me, because it shows that we expect that a lot of projects are funded by friends and family. The standard fundraising at our Unit seems to be making dinner on Troop meeting nights. If you come 30 minutes early, you get a hot meal and you drop a donation in the bucket.

 

[fred johnson]

Ya know there are times I'd just let something be. This is between the scout and his parents. My limit would be that the scout is done and should not use scout or troop meetings for fundraising or troop resources. But if the scout wants to ask neighbors or others for help paying for the project, that's up to him.

I would not be hard hard line on it. If the scout needs to raise funds for it, fine. But I'm betting it will be hard. People like to donate to make things happen, not to shift

 

And the parents did help. And the troop helped thru the Eagle process. BUT ... the Eagle process is done. It's signed off. Complete.

 

**********************************

 

But my opinion is my opinion. I would have it even if I agreed to let the kid raise funds in the troop meetings and run a fund-raising desk as kids arrive to the meetings. It's my opinion. I'd still have the opinion as I watched him continue to raise funds.

 

My opinion would be if the scout wants to try to re-coup his parents money that is up to him and his parents.

 

The only exception in my opinion is if the scout entered into continuing the eagle project with the knowledge and in-advance communication that he'd continue to do fund-raising during and after-the-fact. I'm not trying to say the scout and parents should be burned in the situation. But it doesn't seem right to raise funds or effective to raise funds for a completed, signed-off project.

 

Many places do this. Churches. Non-profits. They get enough to do the project and then continue to raise funds to pay it off.

 

Personally, why did the scoutmaster sign off on a project that was incomplete. Fundraising is part of the project. Was the project complete or not.

 

*****

 

I would not be absolute hard-line on this. But my opinion is my opinion.

[fred johnson]

Loans to be covered by donations are not unknown in the real world. That said, this seems to be an issue between the Scout and the benefactor. I would review it on a case-by-case basis.

 

From the Project Workbook: The Fundraising Application

If your fundraising effort involves contributions only from the beneficiary or you, your parents or relatives, your unit or its

chartered organization, or parents or members in your unit, submitting the fundraising application is not necessary. If you

will be obtaining money or materials from any other sources, you must submit a completed application to the local council

service center.

 

This is interesting to me, because it shows that we expect that a lot of projects are funded by friends and family. The standard fundraising at our Unit seems to be making dinner on Troop meeting nights. If you come 30 minutes early, you get a hot meal and you drop a donation in the bucket.

I like the dinner before troop meeting fundraising. Great and creative idea.

 

I do not think the fundraising app means you are expected to raise funds from family and friends. IMHO, it means if you are going to extend fundraising outside of your normal scouting sphere (church, scouts, family, etc) to the public, then you need to coordinate that fundraising effort with other fundraising efforts.

 

For example, scouting for food, friends of scouting, million dollar day, etc. A potential issue is soliciting heavy from local businesses by walking them door to door and then also having the friends of scouting effort raising funds. They collide and defeat each other.

 

Door to door business visits would probably be bad.

 

A car wash would probably be fine. Or extra popcorn sales. Or ....

[Pack18Alex]

The only possible issue is the sign off. There is nothing unethical in have the cash fronted and the loan paid off. When I took over pack finances I and a few other leaders bought things before the fundraising money was in. Booked it as reimbursements owed, and when cash came in we were reimbursed. I'm not sure why a teenager should be held to a cash only funding model. Funding overruns and securing loans is part of real world finance. Nothing unethical about fundraising and the cash going to the parents to pay off the loan. They can choose to write off the note as a donation or not. But he should have the paper trail. Sometimes is harder to raise funds when the job is done, sometimes easier because people know the work is done as opposed to planned.

[Basementdweller]

I disagree with most of what has been written.

 

First, this is a question for the beneficiary organization. The funds are being raised on their behalf and in their name. If they are cool with it I see no reason the troop or council should have a complaint. Hopefully, the Scout should have been up front with the beneficiary about his financial situation and made them aware of how his fundraising was going.

 

Secondly, if it is acceptable for parents or Scouts to self-fund projects, why isn't it acceptable for the parent to "loan" the Scout money to keep the the project going. We don't know what time constraints the Scout may have been under. Maybe he was leaving for school and needed to finish over the summer. Maybe the project involved landscaping and needed to be in before a hard freeze. Sounds like an interesting Personal Management lesson in cash flow.

 

As to the various sign-offs, I think an argument can be made that if the Scout is still raising money the project isn't complete. Again, the Scout needs to disclose this in his write up. The SM and BOR can approve or not, that's is their prerogative. As an SM, I would need to know more details. If this were written up as a change in scope and documented as such, I'd be inclined to sign off on it, assuming the change didn't drop the scope of the project below what I would consider an acceptable project.

 

Personally, I think it is entirely honorable for the Scout to stick to his original commitment to the project, find solutions and not bail because of the failure of his fundraising effort.

Who says scouting isn't for the rich????

 

I do not have a family that could afford to front money for an eagle project.

 

So my scouts are penalized by their financial situation.

 

So while old rich kid can start his project before he has raised sufficient funds and hope to collect on the back end. Old poor kids project gets delayed till his fundraising is complete.

 

 

Sounds like the old double standard to me 2cd.

[Basementdweller]

I'd like to see a ironclad statement from BSA forbidding friends and family from underwriting eagle projects. The project is a learning tool, and a test of leadership; when families pay the project all benefit to the scout is removed.

 

You want the same rule for Things like James E West and Other Monetary based Awards?

What do you have against where the money comes from?

Should we Require the Scout to get a Job and pay for everything themselves? That would change the types of projects Scouts do now days and stop the Majority of "Out Doing" we do now days..

A Scout can arrange a Community Service Projects or they can arrange to pay for a Display they Build out of Pocket to Honor themselves.

 

.The Question was when should the Scout stop requesting additional funding...simple...when project is completed.

Honestly things like SE and DE's that take lots of dollars to maintain can go away.

 

Same goes for the scout camps.

[Papadaddy]

I'd like to see a ironclad statement from BSA forbidding friends and family from underwriting eagle projects. The project is a learning tool, and a test of leadership; when families pay the project all benefit to the scout is removed.

 

You want the same rule for Things like James E West and Other Monetary based Awards?

What do you have against where the money comes from?

Should we Require the Scout to get a Job and pay for everything themselves? That would change the types of projects Scouts do now days and stop the Majority of "Out Doing" we do now days..

A Scout can arrange a Community Service Projects or they can arrange to pay for a Display they Build out of Pocket to Honor themselves.

 

.The Question was when should the Scout stop requesting additional funding...simple...when project is completed.

I agree. Fundraising is part of the project. If the fundraising is not finished, then the project is not complete and should not be signed off.