​Infamous Eagle Scouts?

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm... Sadly, I have seen a few Eagles in court. I don't reckon that's a reflection on da program, eh? Scoutin' is just one part of a lad's life. Family, school, community, employer, church... all of 'em have their influence. Hopefully we're all workin' together, but it ain't always so. In da grand scheme of things, Scoutin' only gets 'em for a small bit of time. I think we do very well with that, eh? Our positive impact is disproportionate, when done right. But it isn't da be-all and end-all.

 

I worry a bit, though. I reckon I am seein' more lads for whom da Eagle rank is really just a set of minimally-fulfilled paperwork requirements, and it concerns me even more when I hear scouters or pros who try to make da advancement method into that sort of thing. Yeh can't teach character and citizenship by pursuin' awards and checkboxes where "addin' to da requirements" is trotted out whenever some well-intentioned scouter actually expects a lad to be able to swim, or do a pull-up, or bandage a wound. Da real magic of Scoutin' is in da other methods anyways, eh? It's in livin' and workin' with other boys facing challenges in the outdoors.

 

So I sort of agree with MattR, eh? The good programs out there, the ones where yeh come to an EBOR and go "Yah, this is an Eagle Scout" - all of 'em set substantially higher expectations for advancement than what is possible to get by with. They're da programs that have resisted FCFY, have kept patrol outings, where First Class Scouts really can take a group backpackin' or paddlin' on their own.

 

Pretty easy to spot 'em, too. If the lad earned Camping MB in less than 30 nights out, and is comin' to an EBOR with less than 100, odds are we haven't really had enough time with the boy to really affect character. If the lad has only been a librarian in a troop that really doesn't have a library, instead of bein' the guy who planned and led a bunch of outings or kept and purchased da gear for a year or more, we haven't given him enough opportunity to develop citizenship. It's just a patch, and a lad who has learned to regurgitate words.

 

Scoutin' is magic for kids. It changes lives, eh? Only if we believe in it enough to do it better than just followin' da minimal possible interpretation of da text.

[RememberSchiff]

Lot of us unfamous ones though.

So the distinctions in later years are infamous, unfamous, distinguished ?

 

Hmmm, I may need to add that to my resume Eagle Scout UF

[Basementdweller]

I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this.

 

I was thinking something like this could become a SM min.

Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is.

I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen.

You wonder where all of the Eagle bashing comes from.....go over to bryan on scouting and read the stupid, I mean STUPID crap, people right about Eagle over there.

 

You probably think I bash Eagle, I don't think I do......I put it in perspective.

 

It is a long Checklist. All it says about a lad is he has persistence. There is no higher moral standard or citizen test to see if the lad is made of Eagle material.

 

They are just people.

 

Been is scouting long enough that I have seen Extremely poor quality Eagles in both adult and youth scout members. From poor personal and ethical decisions to not having the basic scouting skills.

[Sentinel947]

I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this.

 

I was thinking something like this could become a SM min.

Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is.

I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen.

Eagles are just people. There are good ones, great ones, poor ones, and evil ones. For every dummy that goes out and smokes pot and shoots a police officer, there is a young man running a nonprofit or teaching in the inner city, or in the Army. I hate the BSA's Push Eagle at all costs, but that's out of my hands.

 

 

 

"Been is scouting long enough that I have seen Extremely poor quality Eagles in both adult and youth scout members. From poor personal and ethical decisions to not having the basic scouting skills."

 

 

 

And some of them make good personal and ethical decisions and have far more than the basic scouting skills, don't lump us all together. For better or worse, Eagle Scout encompasses all the people that earned the rank, both good or bad. So forgive me if I get slightly offended at the "Look at all these horrible Eagles!" threads, the same way I get embarrassed every time I read Bryan on Scouting.

 

 

 

But instead of complaining about how many "bad" Eagles there are out there, I'm gonna spend my time trying to help the lads that DO earn Eagle make the most out of themselves in and out of the program.

 

 

 

We as Scoutmasters/Assistant Scoutmasters have the opportunity to influence the problem of "bad" Eagle Scouts in our very local area. It's something you preach Basementdweller, and I've always liked it, "Keep Scouting Local."

 

 

 

Respectfully yours,

 

Sentinel947

[Basementdweller]

Basementdweller has mentioned those annoying adults who didn't earn Eagle, so they're spending their adult time trying. Seems like maybe you've got the opposite issue: never earned it, spend too much time trying to punch holes in it.

I didn't earn Eagle, big whoop. I don't spend time much thinking about it in either direction. Is it overrated? Definitely. Should you use your SM bully pulpit to talk it down? Bad idea. What you ought to do is simply emphasize skills over advancing, and your boys will be the kind of scouts and Eagle Scouts that you want.

Unlike you Scouter99, I did earn it as a youth. What does it mean???? I hung around the program and it kinda happened. I will not forget the conversation with my SM where he suggested I think about doing an eagle project. I was stunned, never considered it. I was having too much fun. I don't remember it being particularly challenging, my court of honor was an Eagle medal looking cake at the regular troop court of honor.

 

 

I am disappointed with what I am seeing in Eagles...... I would like to think I am not alone in this.

 

I once had Rose colored classes and Every Eagle was good and lived the standard. In my adult years in scouting I have come to realize they are just people. And many well meaning scouters are passing low quality scouts.

 

I was doing research on a Local Merit badge University, I attended and roamed the halls a bit. I walked into a class on Camping merit badge, there was 3 councilors at the head table calling up the boys one at a time where they graded the Merit badge.com booklet. I left the room and came back an hour later and they were still grading papers. where is the discussion or personal info gained. Seriously disappointed.

 

Eprep, all three citizenships were held the same way.

 

 

Well I am not going to allow my scouts to attend this university. Zero program other than paper grading.

[onevoice]

I would guess that the percentage of Eagle Scouts who become miscreants is smaller than the percentage of Christian pastors or, say, mayors of Toronto who go off the reservation.

That is just a stupid comment. If the rank is earned by doing the real work, and the scout has learned the lessons from that work, the incidence of Eagle scout who "become miscreants" is probably substantially less than the general population. Same as with Christian pastors. This whole thread reads like a 99% vs 1 % argument. Just a excuse to tear down ones who put in the hard work to achieve a goal. Does anyone really believe what the thread starter said "that the accomplishments of its members can be equal parts good and bad". If so, why are you even involved?

[moosetracker]

 

I seem to have a different perspective then the OP. Seems to me, when ever an article is written about a past Eagle scout doing something criminal, his rank of Eagle is brought up in the article. I can understand if they are fairly young, and the Eagle rank was only a year or so ago, or the idiot who had underage drinking party to celebrate his Eagle rank achievement.. But, when you are talking about a 60 year old shoplifter, does it really matter that he had earned Eagle in his youth. He had lived a lot of life between these two periods in time. I have never seen it written that some older criminal element was in 4H, or the debate club in his youth.

[Stosh]

I seem to have a different perspective then the OP. Seems to me, when ever an article is written about a past Eagle scout doing something criminal, his rank of Eagle is brought up in the article. I can understand if they are fairly young, and the Eagle rank was only a year or so ago, or the idiot who had underage drinking party to celebrate his Eagle rank achievement.. But, when you are talking about a 60 year old shoplifter, does it really matter that he had earned Eagle in his youth. He had lived a lot of life between these two periods in time. I have never seen it written that some older criminal element was in 4H, or the debate club in his youth.

You don't hear about the local firefighter or police officer that performed some heroic act being an Eagle either. I'm sure there are plenty of those to go around.

 

This is why I don't hold much respect for the media, never have, never will. Remember, they SELL STUFF, that's their business. Hyped up headlines sell more than boring obits. I find very little difference between my local rag and the National Inquirer. Of course some of those alien babies that these women have have ended up in my troops over the years.

 

Stosh

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

 

I want to address the comment on “unfamous Eagle Scoutsâ€Â. As scout volunteers we tend to put forward legendary Eagles, such as Armstrong, and Spielberg, as role models; I question if this is a wise choice. These two gentlemen are sure success stories, where scouting unquestionably played a role in who they would become. I’ve met both gentlemen, they are amazing, but no less so than thousands of other successful Eagles you’ll likely never hear of, or even know are eagles.

 

I’ve met brother eagles who are priests, pastors, and monks, devoting lives to service to god and man, never seeking fame. I don’t know how many eagle scout vets I’ve met, and how many parents, and spouses, of fallen soldiers who told me their loved one was an Eagle Scout. Eagles are in boardrooms, making ethical business decisions every day. Eagles are in our classrooms shaping the minds of tomorrow, in are homes raising children on scouting values, and in our meeting halls guiding the next generation of scouts. Eagles are everywhere, in the background, living Scouting Values, and changing the world, one act at a time.

 

The question is how do we define success, and I have the answer, just the way BSA intends:

Mission Statement

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

[TABLE=align: center]

[TR]

[TD]Scout Oath[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD]Scout Law[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight.[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD]A Scout is: [TABLE=align: center]

[TR]

[TD]Trustworthy

Loyal

Helpful

Friendly

Courteous

Kind[/TD]

[TD] [/TD]

[TD]Obedient

Cheerful

Thrifty

Brave

Clean

Reverent[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Vision Statement

The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.

For Arrowmen I’d add: Become a servant leader, not only devoting yourself to unselfish service, but by example, inspiring others to give cheerful service.

“Unfamous Eagles†are the ones you want to use s role models.

 

 

[NeverAnEagle]

I seem to have a different perspective then the OP. Seems to me, when ever an article is written about a past Eagle scout doing something criminal, his rank of Eagle is brought up in the article. I can understand if they are fairly young, and the Eagle rank was only a year or so ago, or the idiot who had underage drinking party to celebrate his Eagle rank achievement.. But, when you are talking about a 60 year old shoplifter, does it really matter that he had earned Eagle in his youth. He had lived a lot of life between these two periods in time. I have never seen it written that some older criminal element was in 4H, or the debate club in his youth.

Moosetracker:

I think that is probably because 4H, FFA, debate, etc. don't place as much value on character development.

A 17 year old 4H member will compete in the same class as a 8 year old 4H member when it comes to animal quality, because classes are divided by weight of hog, sheep, etc. When it comes to wining a champion ribbon there is claim that they achieved moral, or ethical heights, just that they had the better marbled, or better muscled animal. It's the same for non-animal projects as well. All first year projects (example 1st year Dutch oven cookery, 1st year handwork from our Heritage) are judged together regardless of whether the kid is 8 or 11, or any other age. They are taking that project for the 1st year, so they are all together. Likewise there is no claim that someone is an exceptionally good kid just because they can season a Dutch oven.

[moosetracker]

I seem to have a different perspective then the OP. Seems to me, when ever an article is written about a past Eagle scout doing something criminal, his rank of Eagle is brought up in the article. I can understand if they are fairly young, and the Eagle rank was only a year or so ago, or the idiot who had underage drinking party to celebrate his Eagle rank achievement.. But, when you are talking about a 60 year old shoplifter, does it really matter that he had earned Eagle in his youth. He had lived a lot of life between these two periods in time. I have never seen it written that some older criminal element was in 4H, or the debate club in his youth.

Well, if they want to come over and season all my cast iron, I'll call him an exceptionally good kid !!!

 

True, but at 50+ years old, although a Defense team might try to point to an exceptionally bad childhood to defend the bad guy did what he did, because his mommy made him do it.. But a good childhood is really immaterial, even if it included boy scouts. There is a lot of years between A & B to have other experiences influence you.. So 4H is out, how about if their High School voted them "Most likely to succeed".. Or having been in a sport, don't sports claim to have good character development?

[Brewmeister]

The fault lies in the people, not in the program.

 

There are police officers, teachers, religious leaders, and lots of other people in professions that require far more training than earning the Eagle rank who commit immoral or illegal acts.

 

Becoming an Eagle does not make somebody more than human.

[desertrat77]

Eagle is but a moment in time.

 

Congratulations, Eagle. Enjoy your moment...for a moment. Now put your pack on and continue hiking, there are many more challenging trails ahead in life.