Kudu Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I’d be interested to see a list of other infamous Eagle Scouts; All who earn the rank of Eagle are not good Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca, and his anti-Scouting campaign! "Did you know that there was a time when to be a First Class Scout--you guys didn't know this I bet--did you guys have to learn how to catch a runaway horse to be a First Class Scout? When was the last time you saw a runaway horse?" Chorus from the Audience: "Tuesday" http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAnEagle Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 I’d be interested to see a list of other infamous Eagle Scouts; All who earn the rank of Eagle are not good Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca, and his anti-Scouting campaign! "Did you know that there was a time when to be a First Class Scout--you guys didn't know this I bet--did you guys have to learn how to catch a runaway horse to be a First Class Scout? When was the last time you saw a runaway horse?" Chorus from the Audience: "Tuesday" http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm Well, I guess there better off than me, because I haven't seen a run-away horse since September. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAnEagle Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this. I was thinking something like this could become a SM min. Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is. I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this. I was thinking something like this could become a SM min. Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is. I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen. Or you could phrase it by comparing one of the distinguished people you mentioned in the OP and one of your examples of a less than distinguished Eagle. Although making your Scouts associate the rank of Eagle with criminals and murderers is probably not the idea of the century. I have one I'd like to use, (I think I somewhat appropriated it from a member on the forums here, but I forget whom. (If you remember claim your credit!!!!!) I hold up an Eagle rank badge. and ask "How much is this worth?" Scouts probably don't have a reply. I then ask a few Scouts or Parents who had earned Eagle, and they probably give the generic "Alot" "priceless" whatever. I build off that saying, "It costs the BSA about 2 dollars to produce this patch, but it's the skills, the friends, and the character you gain from Scouting that truly matters and gives the Eagle Rank it's value. If you earn it, will yours be worth 2 dollars? Or will it be worth more than that?" That might be a bit too positive on the Eagle rank for you, but I think it puts the Eagle Scout rank into the perspective I want it to be. I don't quite understand where the Eagle Rank hate comes from on this forum. Respectfully, Sentinel947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizon Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this. I was thinking something like this could become a SM min. Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is. I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen. I like that Sentinel - sounds like the passage in Heinlein's Starship Troopers when the teach gives Rico a ribbon for first place, and Rico tears it up and throws it away - stating that he only earned 4th. Becomes a message about the value of something you have earned, vs just been given. $2 for a Eagle patch sounds like another message - offer to sell an Eagle patch, then ask if that makes them an Eagle. Needs work - but I think I can work something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this. I was thinking something like this could become a SM min. Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is. I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen. Sentinel I don't think I'm an Eagle basher, but I do put it into perspective. $2 for the badge which comes having completed a series of requirements. That is one thing, but one can go through the motions, get the badge and have zero development in the area of character and leadership development. Those are the above and beyond expectations which BSA prohibits, BUT the boy expects of himself anyway. Thus the value of the Eagle varies from one person to the next. One can point out examples of +/- values Eagles place on the rank all day long. Pointing out that some Eagles have placed very little "value" in the process isn't Eagle bashing, nor is it any fault of the program, it is simply the value of the rank placed on it by the scout himself. If one wants to find the culprit that bashes the rank, look at those who have reached that rank and it made no real impact on their life. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Stosh, what a novel idea; lets call it self determination and personal pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I'm glad you Gents are enjoying this. I was thinking something like this could become a SM min. Maybe paint a profile of two guys (One of them above) and some other chap and ask the boys to identify who the Eagle is. I'd bet the boys wouldn't ever associate a criminal with the rank of Eagle. Might get them thinking along the lines of actions speaking louder than words. They can earn they rank, but the rank doesn't make them a respectable citizen. JBlake, I don't think you are an Eagle basher. I would agree that the people who do not live up to the ideals and earned the rank do more damage to the value of the rank than anybody else. After all actions speak louder than words. I think we are all trying to reach a similar point emphasizing that Scouting is a process, and the goal is the journey, moreso than the destination. Sentinel947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 What is the purpose of this thread other than to bash on Eagle Scouts? Yes, some Eagle Scouts don't live up to the ideals they professed. Some lose track of those ideals. I fail to see the point of this thread. Mary Jane? Good morning! This is you wake up call. It's now 1966. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentinel947 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 What is the purpose of this thread other than to bash on Eagle Scouts? Yes, some Eagle Scouts don't live up to the ideals they professed. Some lose track of those ideals. I fail to see the point of this thread. Good morning TwoCub! Mary Jane= Marijuana I'm guessing your comment means that euphemism is out of date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Stosh, what a novel idea; lets call it self determination and personal pride.How about self-respect, instead of self-esteem? Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouter99 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Basementdweller has mentioned those annoying adults who didn't earn Eagle, so they're spending their adult time trying. Seems like maybe you've got the opposite issue: never earned it, spend too much time trying to punch holes in it. I didn't earn Eagle, big whoop. I don't spend time much thinking about it in either direction. Is it overrated? Definitely. Should you use your SM bully pulpit to talk it down? Bad idea. What you ought to do is simply emphasize skills over advancing, and your boys will be the kind of scouts and Eagle Scouts that you want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeptic Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 "ON MY HONOR". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahuna Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I would guess that the percentage of Eagle Scouts who become miscreants is smaller than the percentage of Christian pastors or, say, mayors of Toronto who go off the reservation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nike Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I’d be interested to see a list of other infamous Eagle Scouts; All who earn the rank of Eagle are not good Chief Scout Executive Robert Mazzuca, and his anti-Scouting campaign! "Did you know that there was a time when to be a First Class Scout--you guys didn't know this I bet--did you guys have to learn how to catch a runaway horse to be a First Class Scout? When was the last time you saw a runaway horse?" Chorus from the Audience: "Tuesday" http://inquiry.net/leadership/sitting_side_by_side_with_adults.htm Saw a racing donkey last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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