IOLS complaint

[perdidochas]

Don't Merit Badge Counselors need to be 21?

Nope, only 18. IIRC, committee members have to be 21. MBC and ASMs just have to be 18.

[Stosh]

I had an Eagle who was a year ahead in school and turned 18 at the beginning of his senior year of high school. He took IOLS the next spring and WB in the summer. When he gets out of the Air Force where he is doing his ticket, he's going to make one hell of a SM some place. Now all he has to do is wait until he's 21 and he's ready to go. He never mentioned during that whole time that he was wasting his time or money.

 

Stosh

[horanmm]

IOLS isn't needed for them to recharter. Register them as Unit College Scouter Reserve. They only need Youth protection training, which they can take online. That gives you time to negotiate an exemption with district/council so they can get credit for IOLS next year.

 

We have been doing this for the last few year without any problems. They act as an assistant Scoutmaster, but have relaxed training requirements.

[Sentinel947]

I took my IOLS and Scoutmaster Specific when I was 18. I wanted to be involved in the unit I earned my Eagle in. I actually enjoyed the training, and I knew far more than anybody else in the course. Even so, it was a great refresher, helped me make contacts with new leaders around the council, and it "certified" me for if I ever volunteer with another unit. The other slightly unknown option is that they can take YPT and register as "Unit College Scouter Reserve." If they want to stick around, help out, serve as role models, but not take the trainings required for becoming an ASM, that's probably the best move.

[Sentinel947]

IOLS isn't needed for them to recharter. Register them as Unit College Scouter Reserve. They only need Youth protection training, which they can take online. That gives you time to negotiate an exemption with district/council so they can get credit for IOLS next year.

 

We have been doing this for the last few year without any problems. They act as an assistant Scoutmaster, but have relaxed training requirements.

They can do Assistant Scoutmaster like things, but be wary of having them "act" as an Assistant Scoutmaster. Often enough in many units Assistant Scoutmasters do things in place of the Scoutmaster like Scoutmasters conferences, this should not be delegated to Unit college Scouter Reserve. While I'm thumping the book, Unit College Scouter Reserve members are NOT supposed to sit on Board of Reviews either. The BSA is very vague (which is good) on what UCSR is actually supposed to do. As far as I can tell, they help in the mentoring role that ASM's usually do, without the institutionalized duties of the position of ASM. It's weird step for the youth,, but I'm all for the Scouter Reserve designation if it helps keep older boy role models around the Troop a little bit longer. I stayed registered as UCSR for a year before taking my ASM trainings and becoming an ASM.

 

 

 

Sentinel947

[duckfoot]

Sounds like you want to churn out paper trained leaders...

[Sentinel947]

Sounds like you want to churn out paper trained leaders...

Who is that directed at?

[King Ding Dong]

OK I think we have done enough piling on. Kathy, I suspect many of us are coming from the perspective having dealt with many adult volunteers that do not want to take the training and having to deal with that in our units. We have a difficult time accepting that from an Eagle.

[Stosh]

OK I think we have done enough piling on. Kathy, I suspect many of us are coming from the perspective having dealt with many adult volunteers that do not want to take the training and having to deal with that in our units. We have a difficult time accepting that from an Eagle.

I remember my college finance professor telling the class that regardless of what they learn in college, out in the business world it only means you are trainable.

 

Stosh

[Basementdweller]

OK I think we have done enough piling on. Kathy, I suspect many of us are coming from the perspective having dealt with many adult volunteers that do not want to take the training and having to deal with that in our units. We have a difficult time accepting that from an Eagle.

I find it humorous, because not long ago old kathy was busy telling us her boys and parents think she is the best scoutmaster ever.

[duckfoot]

Sounds like you want to churn out paper trained leaders...

Not you Sentinel

[Eagle92]

I have mixed emotions on this one. On one hand, I have known folks who have the knowledge, skills, and abilities (KSAs) at the age 18, 19, 20 etc to teach the IOLS skills. Heck I've already used 15 and 16 year olds to help staff the course. And I admit, I was one of those who were bored stiff during SM Fundamentals, except for the paperwork lessons, because I grew up in the program, and I also took the old Brownsea 22 course that focused on scoutcraft and leadership. So on one hand I can understand them not wanting to spend a weekend redoing skills they already have mastered, and probably taught to younger Scouts.

 

But on the other hand, I have also seen, and read, about some "Eagles" who couldn't find their way in the woods if the trails were thoroughly marked and they had gps units giving them "Tom Tom" like instructions on how to get to the parking lot.

 

My advice would be to see if they could spend a day testing out of the skills. Someone came up with a "syllabus" on how many stations and average length of time at each station that totals 8 hours., including them cooking their own lunch.

 

Another option would be to serve on staff. We had one 3 beader FINALLY get "trained" when he taught IOLS, and I have used folks with the KSAs to teach the course if they have not gone through it yet. Let's face it, if you've been to Philmont 3 times, you may have mastered IOLS skills

[IM_Kathy]

I won't say I'm the best SM ever, but the scouts I've worked with that have had a few different SM's have said I'm their favorite from that group basement....

 

and I would say having boys that have stayed involved past earning Eagle and aging out as well is a sign that we do some good things and have a good group and a lot of fun.

 

Having sat through the training I know the boys will be bored out of their minds. I'm not sure if the training is the same from council to council, but when I went through it there was a mix of sitting through lectures, then being told how to do something, and having enough time for 1 member of your patrol to do it. My patrol was a group of experienced campers except for one so we let that scouter do all the attempts and we just made suggestions when they struggled.

 

IMO it would benefit those that are clueless and are wanting to learn to not have so many people that know what they are doing but are there to get their paper signed and little trained tab. Think about it. The way it currently is there are tons of people sitting around being told how to tie a knot - or it could be 10 people sitting down working one on one and really learning how to tie the knot.

 

The one person in our patrol that was clueless I wouldn't want my kid going camping with and trusting that they knew the skills well enough to teach him. And after I still wouldn't be comfortable with.

 

I just wish there was a better way. But there isn't. Eventually maybe they will come up with a better training method. And maybe the boys (guess their men now) will eventually give up a weekend to go sit through a training they think is boring even though they already give up a weekend a month to still go camp. And with their school, jobs, and after school activities just getting them to still come camp every now and then is pretty cool. If they don't want to sit through the training I can understand and will just keep them registered as MBC.

[jpstodwftexas]

IOLS is not required for any Position unless You want to be Considered "Trained" and Wear the Patch

 

Only Required Training is Youth Protection..

 

It is just Highly recommended

[Twocubdad]

I won't say I'm the best SM ever, but the scouts I've worked with that have had a few different SM's have said I'm their favorite from that group basement....

 

and I would say having boys that have stayed involved past earning Eagle and aging out as well is a sign that we do some good things and have a good group and a lot of fun.

 

Having sat through the training I know the boys will be bored out of their minds. I'm not sure if the training is the same from council to council, but when I went through it there was a mix of sitting through lectures, then being told how to do something, and having enough time for 1 member of your patrol to do it. My patrol was a group of experienced campers except for one so we let that scouter do all the attempts and we just made suggestions when they struggled.

 

IMO it would benefit those that are clueless and are wanting to learn to not have so many people that know what they are doing but are there to get their paper signed and little trained tab. Think about it. The way it currently is there are tons of people sitting around being told how to tie a knot - or it could be 10 people sitting down working one on one and really learning how to tie the knot.

 

The one person in our patrol that was clueless I wouldn't want my kid going camping with and trusting that they knew the skills well enough to teach him. And after I still wouldn't be comfortable with.

 

I just wish there was a better way. But there isn't. Eventually maybe they will come up with a better training method. And maybe the boys (guess their men now) will eventually give up a weekend to go sit through a training they think is boring even though they already give up a weekend a month to still go camp. And with their school, jobs, and after school activities just getting them to still come camp every now and then is pretty cool. If they don't want to sit through the training I can understand and will just keep them registered as MBC.

It's all about attitude. If they go thinking they already know it all and are going to be bored, they will. If they look at as another chance to camp and share a weekend in the woods with new folks of similar interest, they'll have a good time.

 

My IOLS patrol was exactly as you describe. Four Eagle Scouts, a recently-retired Army Ranger and a mom who was totally clueless. But we had a blast. The troop guide wandered into our campsite to teach us knots. We spent the time showing each other fancy climbing knots and rope tricks. The guide finally quit trying to teach us anything, mumbled something about us making sure Patty knew her knots (which we did) and left. Did I learn anything? Not from the staff, but picked up a few new things from the other guys and made some friends. I still see Patty at events from time to time.

 

This is no different than dealing with older Scouts at a troop meeting or camporee where the program is below their skill level. As a SM, how do you help those older Scouts get something from that program?