Burned out with Pack Camping

[Renax127]

Five (or more) overnight campouts for Cub Scouts is way, way too many, particularly for the younger grades. One Family Camp and Summer Camp (day or resident, depending on age/maturity level) is plenty. I'm with BD on this - if no one will help, forget the Pack-wide campouts. Focus on your Den.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I've asked them to find someone else to be assistant CM and I'm just going to worry about my den. I won't be going on any more pack camping trips.

[Stosh]

Five (or more) overnight campouts for Cub Scouts is way, way too many, particularly for the younger grades. One Family Camp and Summer Camp (day or resident, depending on age/maturity level) is plenty. I'm with BD on this - if no one will help, forget the Pack-wide campouts. Focus on your Den.

I can totally understand your burned out feelings. But it would be good to let the Pack leadership know how it happened and why you have pulled back from Pack level support. In the long run, you just might help enough people understand and make some changes so that others won't follow your lead and the Pack collapse due to lack of adult leadership.

 

I know a lot of organizations that have this burn out problem and they spend a ton of time recruiting new people in to replace the burned out people and they never really fix the problem! The burn out people just walk away leaving a hole for the recruitment chairman fills and this destructive cycle continues on once more.

 

Don't cover symptoms, go for the cure.

 

Stosh

[Tampa Turtle]

Just curious........how much camping does your pack do? You do realize that while it is perfectly fine to do so, it is not the norm. We have some packs that camp more than others, but I believe the majority of our packs take advantage of our district day camps, council cub resident camp (summer) and our council spring (May) and fall (October) weekend camps. Those all come with a camp and program director and camp cooks. Most packs are just not geared up like troops are for frequent camping and they are not broken into patrols where the boys are mature enough to take care of themselves. Many cub parents look at cub camping like a trip to the lake. Time to relax while someone else does the work. I'm not trying to discourage you. Cubs need to be exposed to camping, but I personally believe it needs to be in measured doses. Back when we were in Cubs, we had those who camped and those who wanted nothing to do with it. They were active and supportive families who loved the program, but they had no desire to camp. When crossover time came, you had a pretty good idea who was crossing and who was leaving based on who camped and who didn't. When they move to Boy Scouts, they will be camping 12 months per year for up to 7 years give or take. While you want a Cub familiar with camping, you don't want them burned out by the time they crossover. I believe in our pack, the Webelos had about 5 to 6 camping opportunities per year. The 4 I mentioned above, a Webelos Den campout and maybe a trip with a prospective troop to crossover.

 

 

 

 

All of that being said, it sounds as if you need to take a page from the Boy Scouts and more or less form patrols for the adults. Base it off of their den. Lay down some basic camp rules or meal times, lights out, physical camp boundaries, cooing, KP, latrine cleanup, etc. Make a roster and give everyone a job. Buld the campout around program and keep them busy. A sound argument can be made to the parents about the need for organization and using the campouts to help with advancement requirements. Thos who want a lazy weekend staying up until 3 AM or worse yet.....letting their kids stay up until then, can decide whether they want to go on an organized pack campout or do their own thing at the lake during the summer.

We also found many of the younger cub parents had NEVER camped. This was a source of much anxiety especially Mom only households. So we had a special tutorial at our pack meeting on what to take and what not to take--with props. (Take: Sleeping Bag, Tent, Flashlight. Not to Take: Guns, Fireworks, Booze). We showed how to set up a simple tent and said Webelos and Leaders would be available to help newbies setup. Stressed the 10pm lights out. Did our awards at the campout to boost attendance and fill time.

[Tampa Turtle]

When I was a den leader, on Pack campouts, we would generally do hamburgers for lunch, cooked on buddy burners made by the Webelos. We would follow that with a dinner of hot dogs, and whatever else came in (chili, etc.). Breakfast was family by family, or sometimes den by den, depending on the choices of the den. Usually, we did family by family. It seems that people have a lot more choosiness when it comes to breakfast--ranging from donuts/pastries to eggs/bacon/sausages/grits, so we did it that way. There was usually extra coffee to be had around the campsite. The interesting thing to me in Pack camping was how little most Cub Scouts were expected to do. Most of them did nothing but play. My sons weren't that lucky (or possibly they were luckier in the long run). They helped me in every stage of work to their ability. They helped set up and take down the tent. They helped load/unload the car. They helped cook and clean. Kind of interesting, but Boy Scouts was an easy transition to them. Their main frustration in terms of campsite work is that the other boys aren't pulling their share.

 

That said, the main problem with Pack camping is all of the adults involved, with skill/equipment levels ranging from nonexistent to experts.

Agree folks were pickiest about breakfast--so I saw Pop-Tarts/Cereal all the way to heart stopping " Full American." We always told folks about the hot dogs so if they were vegetarians or picky they could bring an alternate.

[Tampa Turtle]

My current pack only has one Pack campout a year and I am trying to up that to two. We have Pack activities but meals are coordinated and cooked by den. Cooking for 100 people is a pain and is called catering not camping. . If turnout is low some dens will combine, this keeps the size manageable and parents involved. You may want to consider lowering the pack campouts and increasing the Webelos campouts. I personally think camping should be mostly on the den level anyway especially with larger packs, though the guidelines don't like that.

We had a great Pack but we found the "natural demand" to be 2.5 Campouts a year. So we eventually moved to 2. One thing we did was have a Pack obstacle course and each Den contribute part of it. Setting up and running it kept a lot of folks occupied. Did a "carnival" with a similar set up the other time. Got to have some planned activities. 5 is too many. Do not want to burn them out before Boy Scouts.

[Twocubdad]

Renax -- so how much longer are you under contract to the pack? Are the penalties for cancelling the contract early steep? Are there performance clauses? Unless you are Cubmaster, committee chairman or maybe pack outings or camping chairman, you have no obligation to take on all this. Just say no and let the chips fall where they may. Apparently there are 149 other parents who are already doing just that.

 

Read your OP to the Cubmaster and Committee chair. Explain to them that you will be responsible only for your Webelos den. Or better yet, that your den will be going on Webelos den campouts in the future and won't attend the pack campouts at all.

 

Just stop. If the spring campout doesn't happen, it is not your responsibility and you shouldn't feel bad about it in the least. Take your Webelos camping instead. THAT is your job.

 

[blw2]

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it Renax127!

Planning to bring this very topic up at our committee mtg this week. We too, need deeper support for the parents

 

Also the side trail about number of trips per year is good. We usually do 4 to 5 trips.....

mix of 2 (maybe sometimes 3) state park type reserved site trips where the pack provides the food. We're lucky enough to have a guy that loves to stand in front of one of those towable pig cookers all day and smoke meat...

we try to do 1 council camp such as cub-o-ree, but the pack still does food

and 1 trip, not really camping, more of a sleepover - we did Patriots Point last year and slept on the USS Yorktown.

I'm actually thinking the catering does tend to be a little much, and it might be good to reduce this, but it is nice focus and a good way to encourage getting together as the group.

 

 

[Austinole]

I feel ya Renax. You have to know your limits. If you're topped out take a camp off. Let everyone know in advance you can't make that camp so they can plan accordingly. Use the weekend to plan a really cool Webelo Den camp out. You're almost out and they have to start looking for new families to take over. It might be they'll step up when the opportunity becomes available.

[scoutergipper]

Five (or more) overnight campouts for Cub Scouts is way, way too many, particularly for the younger grades. One Family Camp and Summer Camp (day or resident, depending on age/maturity level) is plenty. I'm with BD on this - if no one will help, forget the Pack-wide campouts. Focus on your Den.

The single biggest problem facing the Cub Scouting program in my area is the lack of Adults who will do anything. I know several Cubmasters who are essentially running the program by themselves (they are typically also a Den Leader). We just had the entire leadership of a local Pack quit all at the same time - just abandoning not only their own sons, but everyone else's as well.

[blw2]

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it Renax127!

Planning to bring this very topic up at our committee mtg this week. We too, need deeper support for the parents

 

Also the side trail about number of trips per year is good. We usually do 4 to 5 trips.....

mix of 2 (maybe sometimes 3) state park type reserved site trips where the pack provides the food. We're lucky enough to have a guy that loves to stand in front of one of those towable pig cookers all day and smoke meat...

we try to do 1 council camp such as cub-o-ree, but the pack still does food

and 1 trip, not really camping, more of a sleepover - we did Patriots Point last year and slept on the USS Yorktown.

I'm actually thinking the catering does tend to be a little much, and it might be good to reduce this, but it is nice focus and a good way to encourage getting together as the group.

 

I was thinking more about the earlier comment that 5 trips is way too much....

For our pack, it's the trips that make scouting fun. The kids have fun at the meetings sometimes, but there is a lot of "book work" in there and some only so-so stuff too.

The trips are the adventure.... the things they look forward to.....

 

And, if you have only one camping trip a year, what happens to those families that have a conflict that one weekend? They just don't get introduced to camping. I think having multiple trips gives options, so it's not so bad if you miss one.

 

As others have said, they don't really need to be a big production. Some hotdogs, chips, a camp fire, and some good camp chairs for the grown-ups. Let the kids see what a tree is planted in..... DIRT!

[mudman2003]

We had a once a year pack campout at the end of the school year and it's generally the same people setting up, Lately with all the activities, I've found that rather than have people sign up and not be there when needed. I'd have one or two leaders with me that knew what needed to be done and then When it's time for something, like cooking the burgers. I walk to someone standing around, hand them the spatula and say time to cook. then I delegate at the moment whatever else needs to be done to someone that's just standing around. Nobody has ever said no.

[Stosh]

We had a once a year pack campout at the end of the school year and it's generally the same people setting up, Lately with all the activities, I've found that rather than have people sign up and not be there when needed. I'd have one or two leaders with me that knew what needed to be done and then When it's time for something, like cooking the burgers. I walk to someone standing around, hand them the spatula and say time to cook. then I delegate at the moment whatever else needs to be done to someone that's just standing around. Nobody has ever said no.

I have always taken the signal that hands in their pockets means they are volunteering for something. Works just as well for boys as it does for adults.

 

Stosh