Basementdweller Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 It's always the 20% (or less.... around 5-10% in our case) that get the stuff done. I'm happy to say that I too am among the doers in my son's pack...... and I feel your pain Renax127 I have noticed that there's a lot of folks, leaders included, that are always conveniently gone by the time it comes around to folding up the pack kitchen, stacking chairs, or whatever..... We have one leader particular adept at playing hot potato. He is great about helping when asked. He may be chairing a particular event or chore, but as soon as another leader asks a question of steps in to help.... leadership suddenly shifts to that person, whether or not that 'helper' knows that they are now the leader. I think It's really bad in a way, but at the same time admire the smarts...... he gets "credit" for helping and seems like a hero, and yet skillfully gets out of a lot of nuisance stuff by sharing the load. Renax, maybe you need to start taking the lead from the 80 percenters, and at least from time to time, conveniently having someplace to be before it comes time to stack the chairs. I'm trying to figure out how to do this myself! Basement, unless it was me or my son that did the breaking.... if they refused to reimburse me for something like that, I'd be done with them too! Ridiculous! What was their reasoning for not reimbursing you? They claim the door was broken when we arrived, It was not. There are several storys circulating as to exactly what happened, they all revolve around the Webelos den leaders son and his buddy, Some how the lads foot ended up thru the door and in the tussle the hinges detached themselves from the door. The toilet who know what happened. maybe age.... I was waiting for the boys to rip the exterior door off the hinges. they were playing inside the cabin and holding and slamming the door shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 We ALWAYS had great experiences with the family campouts. But our pack was much smaller, only about 30 or so boys, and the parents were always helpful and motivated. And we only did it twice each year (not counting the Webelos camping with the boy scouts) I guess the perception of the experience depends on a lot of factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 It's always the 20% (or less.... around 5-10% in our case) that get the stuff done. I'm happy to say that I too am among the doers in my son's pack...... and I feel your pain Renax127 I have noticed that there's a lot of folks, leaders included, that are always conveniently gone by the time it comes around to folding up the pack kitchen, stacking chairs, or whatever..... We have one leader particular adept at playing hot potato. He is great about helping when asked. He may be chairing a particular event or chore, but as soon as another leader asks a question of steps in to help.... leadership suddenly shifts to that person, whether or not that 'helper' knows that they are now the leader. I think It's really bad in a way, but at the same time admire the smarts...... he gets "credit" for helping and seems like a hero, and yet skillfully gets out of a lot of nuisance stuff by sharing the load. Renax, maybe you need to start taking the lead from the 80 percenters, and at least from time to time, conveniently having someplace to be before it comes time to stack the chairs. I'm trying to figure out how to do this myself! Basement, unless it was me or my son that did the breaking.... if they refused to reimburse me for something like that, I'd be done with them too! Ridiculous! What was their reasoning for not reimbursing you? My boys know how steam starts coming out my ears when they start the door games. It happened about a year ago. Result is they lost their bedroom doors for week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Put up a sign-up sheet at the beginning of the year or maybe Blue/Gold. Title: Campout #X Date: __________________ Chairman: ____________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 1: ___________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 2: ___________________________________ Phone #: Food Chairman: ____________________________________________ etc. Support for Food 1: _______________________________________ etc, Support for Food 2: _______________________________________ Meal Cleanup: etc. 2 helpers Camp safety Chairman: Campsite Reservation Chairman Activity Chairman: Etc. This process should apply to ALL activities for the year including next year's Blue/Gold banquet. You can also do this for each one of the Dens! Anything the Pack does gets a sheet! Post all such activities with sufficient personnel to do it properly, on the wall of the banquet hall and announce that sigh-up is first come, first served. BUT!!!!! if all the slots are not filled in before we leave, the activity will be cancelled for the year. We are no longer going to do any activities without the boys properly cared for. If no one, or not enough sign up, take the sheet, crumple it up and toss into the garbage. If people want their boys to have a program, they are expected to sign-up to help make it happen. Collect up all the sheets, contact each member on the filled sheets, and get their addresses, contact information. Put it into a activity booklet and mail to each person that has stepped up to help so they can mark their calendars and plan ahead. 1) It puts all responsibilities for the year on each person's shoulders. 2) Eliminates last minute run-arounds looking for volunteers. 3) Everyone knows up-front what is expected from them for the year and won't be hassled down the road to do more. 4) Everyone knows up-front what activities will be done and which ones are eliminated because of lack of support. Oh, no one signed up to do the Wolf den! So be it. We won't have wolves this year. Who said it's the CM's job to run around and beg for volunteers? I've seen this done in other organizations and once everyone figures out you really mean it, it works like a charm. Where's the summer campout going to be? Check with the chairman, he knows who is reservation chairman is and can get that info in just a couple of phone calls. What are they planning on doing? Contact the chairman, he knows who the activity chairman is. Better yet send the booklet out to ALL parents and even those phone calls will go away as well. Is this a harsh pill to swallow? Yep, the first year, but after that it goes like clockwork! Stosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renax127 Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Put up a sign-up sheet at the beginning of the year or maybe Blue/Gold. Title: Campout #X Date: __________________ Chairman: ____________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 1: ___________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 2: ___________________________________ Phone #: Food Chairman: ____________________________________________ etc. Support for Food 1: _______________________________________ etc, Support for Food 2: _______________________________________ Meal Cleanup: etc. 2 helpers Camp safety Chairman: Campsite Reservation Chairman Activity Chairman: Etc. This process should apply to ALL activities for the year including next year's Blue/Gold banquet. You can also do this for each one of the Dens! Anything the Pack does gets a sheet! Post all such activities with sufficient personnel to do it properly, on the wall of the banquet hall and announce that sigh-up is first come, first served. BUT!!!!! if all the slots are not filled in before we leave, the activity will be cancelled for the year. We are no longer going to do any activities without the boys properly cared for. If no one, or not enough sign up, take the sheet, crumple it up and toss into the garbage. If people want their boys to have a program, they are expected to sign-up to help make it happen. Collect up all the sheets, contact each member on the filled sheets, and get their addresses, contact information. Put it into a activity booklet and mail to each person that has stepped up to help so they can mark their calendars and plan ahead. 1) It puts all responsibilities for the year on each person's shoulders. 2) Eliminates last minute run-arounds looking for volunteers. 3) Everyone knows up-front what is expected from them for the year and won't be hassled down the road to do more. 4) Everyone knows up-front what activities will be done and which ones are eliminated because of lack of support. Oh, no one signed up to do the Wolf den! So be it. We won't have wolves this year. Who said it's the CM's job to run around and beg for volunteers? I've seen this done in other organizations and once everyone figures out you really mean it, it works like a charm. Where's the summer campout going to be? Check with the chairman, he knows who is reservation chairman is and can get that info in just a couple of phone calls. What are they planning on doing? Contact the chairman, he knows who the activity chairman is. Better yet send the booklet out to ALL parents and even those phone calls will go away as well. Is this a harsh pill to swallow? Yep, the first year, but after that it goes like clockwork! Stosh So they sign up to help out then don't bother too show up, now what. It's what happen last year with Pinewood Derby? I'm not going to tell 80 boys they can't have a Derby because a couple parents can't live up to a simple commitment of a 3-4 hours over 2 months. Any punishment just affects the kid and it ain't their fault. Put anymore pressure on the parents and they just stop coming, what good is that for the boys. Anyway it isn't so much the planning of an event as the adults behavior at the events that's got me wound up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Put up a sign-up sheet at the beginning of the year or maybe Blue/Gold. Title: Campout #X Date: __________________ Chairman: ____________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 1: ___________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 2: ___________________________________ Phone #: Food Chairman: ____________________________________________ etc. Support for Food 1: _______________________________________ etc, Support for Food 2: _______________________________________ Meal Cleanup: etc. 2 helpers Camp safety Chairman: Campsite Reservation Chairman Activity Chairman: Etc. This process should apply to ALL activities for the year including next year's Blue/Gold banquet. You can also do this for each one of the Dens! Anything the Pack does gets a sheet! Post all such activities with sufficient personnel to do it properly, on the wall of the banquet hall and announce that sigh-up is first come, first served. BUT!!!!! if all the slots are not filled in before we leave, the activity will be cancelled for the year. We are no longer going to do any activities without the boys properly cared for. If no one, or not enough sign up, take the sheet, crumple it up and toss into the garbage. If people want their boys to have a program, they are expected to sign-up to help make it happen. Collect up all the sheets, contact each member on the filled sheets, and get their addresses, contact information. Put it into a activity booklet and mail to each person that has stepped up to help so they can mark their calendars and plan ahead. 1) It puts all responsibilities for the year on each person's shoulders. 2) Eliminates last minute run-arounds looking for volunteers. 3) Everyone knows up-front what is expected from them for the year and won't be hassled down the road to do more. 4) Everyone knows up-front what activities will be done and which ones are eliminated because of lack of support. Oh, no one signed up to do the Wolf den! So be it. We won't have wolves this year. Who said it's the CM's job to run around and beg for volunteers? I've seen this done in other organizations and once everyone figures out you really mean it, it works like a charm. Where's the summer campout going to be? Check with the chairman, he knows who is reservation chairman is and can get that info in just a couple of phone calls. What are they planning on doing? Contact the chairman, he knows who the activity chairman is. Better yet send the booklet out to ALL parents and even those phone calls will go away as well. Is this a harsh pill to swallow? Yep, the first year, but after that it goes like clockwork! Stosh Wow. Derby is the one event we don't have problems with volunteers at all. Do you have your people trained ? That can help sometimes. My CC has been sending out rah rah emails thanking all the chairs/volunteers for the events in the weeks prior to the event. Kind of puts the spotlight on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack18Alex Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 We ended up with two of them two weeks apart, that was freaking brutal… We are learning who stays and who goes. One camp that we had broken down early, with everyone helping, everything was done in about 10 minutes. Next one we had the boys doing activities and people broken down over time, and the last ones there had a 2 hour break down (in part from being tired). We had 3 Campouts last year, 1 Pack, 2 Council/District Activities, and that was a bit light. This year we have 6 Campouts, 4 Council/District Activities, 2 Pack, which is seeming excessive. The problem becomes what to skip… If we can spread the workload easier, which we hopefully will, this becomes a much easier process. Part of it is getting checklists, we have parents willing to help, they just don't necessarily know how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howarthe Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I've gone family camping with my pack before, but it was a council event at a winter lodge. I did not take any responsibility for the other scouts in the group. They all had parents there. Everyone was responsible for their own meals. But our pack is finally getting big. We are going to try some tent camping this summer. It seems like more work than its worth to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Put up a sign-up sheet at the beginning of the year or maybe Blue/Gold. Title: Campout #X Date: __________________ Chairman: ____________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 1: ___________________________________ Phone #: Support for Chairman 2: ___________________________________ Phone #: Food Chairman: ____________________________________________ etc. Support for Food 1: _______________________________________ etc, Support for Food 2: _______________________________________ Meal Cleanup: etc. 2 helpers Camp safety Chairman: Campsite Reservation Chairman Activity Chairman: Etc. This process should apply to ALL activities for the year including next year's Blue/Gold banquet. You can also do this for each one of the Dens! Anything the Pack does gets a sheet! Post all such activities with sufficient personnel to do it properly, on the wall of the banquet hall and announce that sigh-up is first come, first served. BUT!!!!! if all the slots are not filled in before we leave, the activity will be cancelled for the year. We are no longer going to do any activities without the boys properly cared for. If no one, or not enough sign up, take the sheet, crumple it up and toss into the garbage. If people want their boys to have a program, they are expected to sign-up to help make it happen. Collect up all the sheets, contact each member on the filled sheets, and get their addresses, contact information. Put it into a activity booklet and mail to each person that has stepped up to help so they can mark their calendars and plan ahead. 1) It puts all responsibilities for the year on each person's shoulders. 2) Eliminates last minute run-arounds looking for volunteers. 3) Everyone knows up-front what is expected from them for the year and won't be hassled down the road to do more. 4) Everyone knows up-front what activities will be done and which ones are eliminated because of lack of support. Oh, no one signed up to do the Wolf den! So be it. We won't have wolves this year. Who said it's the CM's job to run around and beg for volunteers? I've seen this done in other organizations and once everyone figures out you really mean it, it works like a charm. Where's the summer campout going to be? Check with the chairman, he knows who is reservation chairman is and can get that info in just a couple of phone calls. What are they planning on doing? Contact the chairman, he knows who the activity chairman is. Better yet send the booklet out to ALL parents and even those phone calls will go away as well. Is this a harsh pill to swallow? Yep, the first year, but after that it goes like clockwork! Stosh Obviously there are always emergencies when people can't do something at the last minute. That hassle is a lot easier than a whole passle of people expecting to show up, never made a commitment to it and of course, don't show up. Now you have a BIG problem. It should be, up front of course, announced that if they sign up, they are expected to show up. At least you know you have a workable contingent when you start, things change, adjust a bit. Renax127, so someone didn't show up. Well others stepped up and made it happen for the boys. Nothing in the signup program that says that can't be done when someone drops the ball. There will be a few who step up to fill in the gaps that didn't sign up but are still willing to help. If not enough people sign up for Pinewood Derby, wouldn't it be a better idea to tell the families up front there isn't going to be a Derby or wait until after everyone's built a car, then disappoint them. So I'm sitting there figuring I ought to sign up for something. Okay, Blue Gold table decorations. That's it. No one's going to call me every other week asking me to do something else, someone else has that covered. When Blue Gold rolls around, I walk in, decorate tables and I'm done. If my dad dies right before Blue Gold, I call the Blue/Gold Chairman and ask if he or one of his helpers can stop by and pick up the decorations and put them on the table, they are in a box all ready to go. A bit of an inconvenience, but still better than arm twisting all year up until the last minute. If anyone likes the way they are doing it, fine, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if you're burned out, this might be a start to look at another alternative to cut down on the hassles. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 We ended up with two of them two weeks apart, that was freaking brutal… We are learning who stays and who goes. One camp that we had broken down early, with everyone helping, everything was done in about 10 minutes. Next one we had the boys doing activities and people broken down over time, and the last ones there had a 2 hour break down (in part from being tired). We had 3 Campouts last year, 1 Pack, 2 Council/District Activities, and that was a bit light. This year we have 6 Campouts, 4 Council/District Activities, 2 Pack, which is seeming excessive. The problem becomes what to skip… If we can spread the workload easier, which we hopefully will, this becomes a much easier process. Part of it is getting checklists, we have parents willing to help, they just don't necessarily know how. "we have parents willing to help, they just don't necessarily know how." That's an easy fix. The one who did it last year invites next year's volunteer, to coffee. The newbie takes notes and next year when he has a new newbie, he has his original notes and anything else he added to improve it. This continues on and on and the program never has to reinvent the wheel. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blw2 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yes, Jblake, That's an interesting approach. I actually like the idea. Makes sense..... on paper at least. I tend to agree with Renax's response though..... most parents aren't there to be strong armed or pressured and would just assume to not be dragging their kids to scouts anyway. On top of that, many couldn't organize their way out of a box and would completely "forget" to show up. So, it still comes down to the 80/20 rule. You'll have 20% of the parents that put their names on said sign up sheets, most will likely sign up for multiple positions and for multiple events. Also of note, these are the same people that already are wearing a uniform in some role or another. You may get the odd parent here or there that's not a registered leader because they already have too much on their plate.... and they'll sign up for the odd event because it's the right thing to do. But the 80% will fail to hear the announcement and will not see that giant sign up table by the door as they walk in and out of the room. So you we cancel the even because we didn't have a name in the assistant dishwasher spot. Most parents will think, Yippe, I just got my weekend back! The boys are disappointed and miss out, but they get to stay home and play Minecraft so all is good in the world! Just my opinion based on my experience..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yes, Jblake, That's an interesting approach. I actually like the idea. Makes sense..... on paper at least. I tend to agree with Renax's response though..... most parents aren't there to be strong armed or pressured and would just assume to not be dragging their kids to scouts anyway. On top of that, many couldn't organize their way out of a box and would completely "forget" to show up. So, it still comes down to the 80/20 rule. You'll have 20% of the parents that put their names on said sign up sheets, most will likely sign up for multiple positions and for multiple events. Also of note, these are the same people that already are wearing a uniform in some role or another. You may get the odd parent here or there that's not a registered leader because they already have too much on their plate.... and they'll sign up for the odd event because it's the right thing to do. But the 80% will fail to hear the announcement and will not see that giant sign up table by the door as they walk in and out of the room. So you we cancel the even because we didn't have a name in the assistant dishwasher spot. Most parents will think, Yippe, I just got my weekend back! The boys are disappointed and miss out, but they get to stay home and play Minecraft so all is good in the world! Just my opinion based on my experience..... "The boys are disappointed and miss out, but they get to stay home and play Minecraft so all is good in the world!" Lol. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Yes, Jblake, That's an interesting approach. I actually like the idea. Makes sense..... on paper at least. I tend to agree with Renax's response though..... most parents aren't there to be strong armed or pressured and would just assume to not be dragging their kids to scouts anyway. On top of that, many couldn't organize their way out of a box and would completely "forget" to show up. So, it still comes down to the 80/20 rule. You'll have 20% of the parents that put their names on said sign up sheets, most will likely sign up for multiple positions and for multiple events. Also of note, these are the same people that already are wearing a uniform in some role or another. You may get the odd parent here or there that's not a registered leader because they already have too much on their plate.... and they'll sign up for the odd event because it's the right thing to do. But the 80% will fail to hear the announcement and will not see that giant sign up table by the door as they walk in and out of the room. So you we cancel the even because we didn't have a name in the assistant dishwasher spot. Most parents will think, Yippe, I just got my weekend back! The boys are disappointed and miss out, but they get to stay home and play Minecraft so all is good in the world! Just my opinion based on my experience..... blw2 - been there done that, every thing you point out is true except for the 80/20. I have experienced major shifts in those numbers in every organization I have worked this system in. I saw one organization do this and the "president" of the group spent a few hours once a month sitting down and doing a phone call to each activity chair asking how things were going and if there was anything she needed to be doing to help with the process. 100% of the time the chairperson "had everything under control". At the last minute if something hiccupped, the president was there to help plug the gaps. That occurred 2-3 times a year and it was not a big deal with any of them. However, it wasn't a miraculous fix the first year out of the starting blocks. But after that the numbers shifted to about 50/50 by the second and even better the third year. It might not be ideal but it made a major impact on the 20% that had to carry the load previously. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementdweller Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 So if the parents don't want to camp or refuse to volunteer...Can the weekend because obviously no one cares?????? When I was a Cub, we didn't camp as a pack and I participated in a Dad and Lad campout as a webelo..... I can't say I missed anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutergipper Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Five (or more) overnight campouts for Cub Scouts is way, way too many, particularly for the younger grades. One Family Camp and Summer Camp (day or resident, depending on age/maturity level) is plenty. I'm with BD on this - if no one will help, forget the Pack-wide campouts. Focus on your Den. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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