How Prepared are Utah Scouts?

[RememberSchiff]

Interesting article following the Utah goblin toppling. Touches on lack of required training but not quality of training. No mention of tour permits or what training and more important what outdoor experience leaders have had prior to leading outings, extreme or otherwise. I agree about small (patrol size) groups for outings.

 

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57029187-90/scouts-scout-leaders-utah.html.csp?page=1

[Basementdweller]

Park rangers cringe when they see scouts. Imagine that.

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

That was very interesting. 200K in Utah--That is a lot of scouts. BTW-I thought the GSS said a minimum of 4 adults per outing? I think they had only 2 and they did not look that fit.

[pcola]

That was very interesting. 200K in Utah--That is a lot of scouts. BTW-I thought the GSS said a minimum of 4 adults per outing? I think they had only 2 and they did not look that fit.

On page 4 of the 2013 GSS it say "Safety rule of four: No fewer than four individuals (always with the minimum of two adults) go on any backcountry expedition or campout."

 

You are right that the leaders should have been more fit - same paragraph from GSS continues: "Additional adult leadership requirements must reflect an awareness of such factors as size and skill level of the group, anticipated environmental conditions, and overall degree of challenge."

[Nike]

Seeking adventures outdoors » Utah’s three Scout councils contend extreme misbehavior is rare and goes against training. They note that nearly 200,000 Scouts in Utah spend about a half-million nights camping a year.

 

I sure wouldn't be bragging that my Scouts only spent on average 2.5 nights camping. Even if half are non-camping Cubbies, that's only an average of 5 nights a year. The real show of course is in the comments. Bring your fire resistant suit for reading, let alone participating.

[Tampa Turtle]

That was very interesting. 200K in Utah--That is a lot of scouts. BTW-I thought the GSS said a minimum of 4 adults per outing? I think they had only 2 and they did not look that fit.

Thank you, We try to go with 4 adults. I do not do some activities when I think I up to the physical challenge,

[Tampa Turtle]

I suspect that 200K scouts doing 500K nights means a lot of partially active scouts. Our Troop has 50-70 boys on paper but maybe 35 "core". I suspect our average is a lot lower than I would like.

[Basementdweller]

G2SS and all that nonsense aside.

 

The minimum adult to scout ratio to pull a tour permit is 1:10.

[Basementdweller]

Seeking adventures outdoors » Utah’s three Scout councils contend extreme misbehavior is rare and goes against training. They note that nearly 200,000 Scouts in Utah spend about a half-million nights camping a year.

 

I sure wouldn't be bragging that my Scouts only spent on average 2.5 nights camping. Even if half are non-camping Cubbies, that's only an average of 5 nights a year. The real show of course is in the comments. Bring your fire resistant suit for reading, let alone participating.

Nice catch.

[Nike]

I suspect that 200K scouts doing 500K nights means a lot of partially active scouts. Our Troop has 50-70 boys on paper but maybe 35 "core". I suspect our average is a lot lower than I would like.

To get to 15 nights per "active" Scout, that's only about 33,000 truly active youth, 1/6 of the purported registered. It'd be interesting to compare other councils' stats, if stuff like that is available.

[Stosh]

Kinda uneasy feeling with this thread. Utah Scouts? The boys weren't the one's tipping things over. Utah Scouters? Maybe.

 

Park rangers have more problem with the youth or the adults?

 

I'm thinking this is not limited to Utah either. Hopefully that isn't some code word for LDS.

 

Just a feeling.

 

RememberSchiff, I'm not assuming anything on your part, it's more of a feeling on my part.

 

Stosh

[skeptic]

Again, the reality is that there are some rangers that have had some poor or scary contacts with scouts and scouters, so are a bit biased. But, when compared to the general public and the levels of use, I submit that the respect for the outdoors and others is far greater on the Scouting side. Our local rangers are very pro Scouting because they clean up the messes left by others much of the time, and they also do regular trail work that would not get done otherwise. IF we do have a "reported" negative group our local leaders will respond to it and attempt to deal with the group to improve their understanding and future activity. And I would suggest that this response from the local Scouting community is more the norm than non response, and certainly at a higher level of curative action than is seen in the general public.

 

Lets not forget that every opportunity media gets to degrade scouting they tend to take; but they hardly ever publicize the far more common positive actions.

[King Ding Dong]

Kinda uneasy feeling with this thread. Utah Scouts? The boys weren't the one's tipping things over. Utah Scouters? Maybe.

 

Park rangers have more problem with the youth or the adults?

 

I'm thinking this is not limited to Utah either. Hopefully that isn't some code word for LDS.

 

Just a feeling.

 

RememberSchiff, I'm not assuming anything on your part, it's more of a feeling on my part.

 

Stosh

I read through a large chunk of the comments in the sltrib piece and in combination with what is posted on this forum there certainly are problems with the LDS Scouting program. They are also a large, and at least in Utah somewhat concentrated, Scouting organization so therefor have a large target on their back. No way to really tell statistically if they have more problems than the rest of scouting or just get a bum rap.

 

The comments are full of stories of disinterested leaders providing the scouts with to much rope without proper training and guidance. That can happen anywhere, but the "voluntold" issue gives it some plausibility.

[perdidochas]

Seeking adventures outdoors » Utah’s three Scout councils contend extreme misbehavior is rare and goes against training. They note that nearly 200,000 Scouts in Utah spend about a half-million nights camping a year.

 

I sure wouldn't be bragging that my Scouts only spent on average 2.5 nights camping. Even if half are non-camping Cubbies, that's only an average of 5 nights a year. The real show of course is in the comments. Bring your fire resistant suit for reading, let alone participating.

LDS troops don't camp on Saturday night, so that probably skews their stats. For them 5 nights of camping is 5 trips, for us, 5 nights of camping is 2.5 trips. That said, it is on the low side.

[Twocubdad]

Kinda uneasy feeling with this thread. Utah Scouts? The boys weren't the one's tipping things over. Utah Scouters? Maybe.

 

Park rangers have more problem with the youth or the adults?

 

I'm thinking this is not limited to Utah either. Hopefully that isn't some code word for LDS.

 

Just a feeling.

 

RememberSchiff, I'm not assuming anything on your part, it's more of a feeling on my part.

 

Stosh

Yeah, the comments section there is brutal including a two-page detour into the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Wow. Makes what passes here as "Mormon bashing" seem like a picnic.