Facts About Atheists according to Pew

[Stosh]

I'm just a simple IT guy but to Stosh's point, there are a couple of ways to deal with religious elements in the public space. The first and easier is to remove them, the second and harder is to welcome all comers. My understanding is either will pass muster in the public square. When the choice always seems to fall to the former, rather than the latter, the implication is we are becoming god-less or at least icon-less.

Crabby people are only looking for excuses to be crabby. Religion is just a cop-out excuse for being crabby.

 

A true Christian knows, God doesn't need our protection from the world. He does just fine on his own. He'll be around long after the crabby people are gone.

[Stosh]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

If the US is truly a religiously tolerant country, why would any one have to compromise the "free expression" of their beliefs or have to alter them to accommodate someone else's complaint. The tolerance is a two-way street.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

If the US is truly a religiously tolerant country, why would any one have to compromise the "free expression" of their beliefs or have to alter them to accommodate someone else's complaint. The tolerance is a two-way street.

 

I know it's futile to ask, but DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE INSTEAD OF YOUR USUAL VAGUE HANDWAVING?

 

You know what a specific example is, don't you? Something that actually happened, with people who have real names. Not made up fantasies.

[Stosh]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm tired of your bait tactics.

 

If you don't believe tolerance is a two-way street, just say so, and give examples.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm tired of your bait tactics.

 

Translation: you have no actual examples.

 

If you don't believe tolerance is a two-way street, just say so, and give examples.

 

I don't believe that, but I don't believe you have any actual examples of non-tolerance, either.

[Stosh]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

Sorry you don't believe that, I do believe that tolerance is a two-way street. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

Sorry you don't believe that, I do believe that tolerance is a two-way street.

 

Now you can't even read. I clearly wrote "I don't believe that" in response to you writing "If you don't believe tolerance is a two-way street"

 

I do believe tolerance is a two-way street. I have yet to see you post a specific example of non-tolerance.

[Stosh]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

Let's go for the shorter list, show me examples where atheists have been tolerant towards any other religion. Try and be as specific as possible.

 

Otherwise, do a search on ACLU cases, especially the one filed against the ACLU by it's employees.

 

Here, let me do the research for you: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/15/aclu-embroiled-in-contract-dispute-with-its-own-unionized-employees/

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

Let's go for the shorter list, show me examples where atheists have been tolerant towards any other religion. Try and be as specific as possible.

 

Why are you trying to avoid having to back up your own assertions and putting the onus on me?

 

You're the one making claims:

"If the US is truly a religiously tolerant country, why would any one have to compromise the "free expression" of their beliefs or have to alter them to accommodate someone else's complaint."

 

You have yet to produce an example of what you mean.

 

Plus, you're shifting the goalposts. We've been talking about the US being tolerant, but now you come back and, out of nowhere, ask about where atheists have been tolerant towards any other religion.

 

And then you make another non-sequitur and change to the ACLU and a contract dispute. What's that got to do with whether the US is a religiously tolerant country?

[SSScout]

Yes, the ACLU has defended many religious tolerance cases. And the one Jblake notes has nothing to do with religion, as far as I can see. And our athiest friends often do not get the understanding they deserve. And the so-called Christian right often does not allow for other types of faith.

We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world. We do have the means to discuss (not just cuss) and, depending on what Holy Script you follow (and often what PART of that script), the basis for finding out where we agree and where we part company. And for that, I give thanks.

[Rick_in_CA]

Yes, the ACLU has defended many religious tolerance cases. And the one Jblake notes has nothing to do with religion, as far as I can see. And our athiest friends often do not get the understanding they deserve. And the so-called Christian right often does not allow for other types of faith.

We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world. We do have the means to discuss (not just cuss) and, depending on what Holy Script you follow (and often what PART of that script), the basis for finding out where we agree and where we part company. And for that, I give thanks.

"We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world."

 

I curious, are we really better than Canada? The UK? Australia? New Zealand?

[Stosh]

Well, how 'bout a ""Faith and Chaplaincy Sub Forum""?

As a Jambo Chaplain, I can say there is alot of religiosity out in Scout Land. I think the difference is more in people seeing less necessity in ritual, than in belief. I have met alot of "I'm a catholic but..." folks of late. And similarly in other faiths, " I'm an XYZ but...". Have you read the new MoU from the Lutheran Missouri Synod? There has been a raprochment (sp?) between the BSA and the late anti-BSA synod. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/lutheran_misso_synod.pdf .

In the District I Commish, I sense a desire among Units to accomodate (yes, there is one home school evangelical Catholic Troop that is very exclusionary and may not recharter this year.) different faiths, even the professed agnostic or athiest.

 

 

 

"Why are you trying to avoid having to back up your own assertions and putting the onus on me?"

 

Same reason for why the victim would be expected to prove intolerance against the bully? The bully never sees their action as being intolerant.

 

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131023/A_OPINION0619/310230306/-1/A_OPINION/

 

Obviously the college saw this as nothing wrong with their policy, but here you have a "free speech" zone inside a nationwide free speech country? I kinda thought the First Amendment applied from Hawaii to Maine and Alaska to Florida not some little square on the college campus.

 

It is also quite obvious the student on public property handing out Constitutions on Constitution Day was a right accorded to any American. I guess not. The very document that gave him the right to do so was not allowed by public officials.

 

http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/college-sued-for-stopping-constitution-handout/

 

Where was the ACLU? I would have thought they would have been first in line to jump on this one. Foundation for Individual Rights in Education has filed because ACLU is definitely AWOL. Kinda leaves one wondering why only certain individuals have ACLU support and others don't. I wonder what the agenda of the ALCU really is?

 

Like I said, in a tolerant nation, none of this would even be on the radar of local news, let alone international news. And if it was, those organizational watchdog groups should have been the first to jump. As a matter of fact, if it were truly a tolerant nation, I wonder if any of it would have even occurred.

 

Keep it vague to stay just out of reach, and then expect everyone to produce specifics to deal with it. That's what the bully relies on.

 

That last statement is why you'll not get specific examples.

 

It's kinda like the rantings of the intolerant having school and professional sports to change the Indian names of their school mascots. Where's the outcry against the slam against the Norwegians, depicting them as brutal and warlike by using the offensive term Viking?

 

Like any other hypocritical agenda, it all depends on who's ox is getting gored.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yes, the ACLU has defended many religious tolerance cases. And the one Jblake notes has nothing to do with religion, as far as I can see. And our athiest friends often do not get the understanding they deserve. And the so-called Christian right often does not allow for other types of faith.

We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world. We do have the means to discuss (not just cuss) and, depending on what Holy Script you follow (and often what PART of that script), the basis for finding out where we agree and where we part company. And for that, I give thanks.

Just off the top of my head, Canada has some criminal hate speech laws that would make it illegal to promote some (mostly conservative) religious positions on, say, gays or women, the UK still has an official religion that gets tax money and Christianity is supposed to be pushed in government schools (though it's widely ignored). Don't know enough of Australia or NZ to make a pertinent contrast.

[Stosh]

Yes, the ACLU has defended many religious tolerance cases. And the one Jblake notes has nothing to do with religion, as far as I can see. And our athiest friends often do not get the understanding they deserve. And the so-called Christian right often does not allow for other types of faith.

We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world. We do have the means to discuss (not just cuss) and, depending on what Holy Script you follow (and often what PART of that script), the basis for finding out where we agree and where we part company. And for that, I give thanks.

Has the military in any of those countries defined Christianity as a hate group in any of those countries like it has in ours?

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yes, the ACLU has defended many religious tolerance cases. And the one Jblake notes has nothing to do with religion, as far as I can see. And our athiest friends often do not get the understanding they deserve. And the so-called Christian right often does not allow for other types of faith.

We still have a better time of it than , I think, any other country in the world. We do have the means to discuss (not just cuss) and, depending on what Holy Script you follow (and often what PART of that script), the basis for finding out where we agree and where we part company. And for that, I give thanks.

Has the military in any of those countries defined Christianity as a hate group in any of those countries like it has in ours?

 

That hasn't happened. What HAS happened is that a specific organization, the Family Research Council, has been designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center because they use discredited studies to deliberately lie about gays.