Facts About Atheists according to Pew

[skeptic]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/23/5-facts-about-atheists/

[Kahuna]

Interesting stats. Sounds to me like people are defining spiritual beliefs differently today. Many of those might be considered agnostics, but I guess the point is whether the Religious Declaration of the BSA is still relevant to the way people think. One of the reasons that AA has survived as long as it has is that it allows people to believe in God "as we understand Him." It allows people who are willing to admit the probability of a supreme being to belong. Perhaps that would work in Scouting. Although I'm Buddhist and my personal view of a supreme being has long been very different than the Judeo-Christian one, I've never had a problem saying the Scout Oath and Law with conviction. When I was a Scoutmaster, I sometimes met with boys who said they didn't believe in God, but if I asked probing questions, they generally said they agreed there was some higher power in the universe.

[Stosh]

Ever since the beginning of time, humanity has been struggling with the issue of religion and how it should be expressed. When I use the term religion, it is not meant in the normal sense of Christian/Buddhist/Islam/Judean, etc., but as a belief system by which people operate. There are those that believe there is a God and others say they believe he doesn't exist. Most people fluctuate and are unsure because of the nature of the issue, thus they fall into the grey area between. Even the most ardent Christian will feel, usually in a stressful situation, there is no God out there... A few days later he feels close to God once more. It all depends a lot on what day the survey is taken. But generally speaking, the survey might be somewhat accurate, who knows.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

Kinda amazing how 2.4% of the population can and does have such an impact on the other 97.6% of those that do have some relevant spirituality. It shows how powerful their impact can disrupt the vast majority of people and their beliefs. Beware America, the wolf is at the door.

 

By the way, the 82% who "feel a connection to nature" are by definition Pantheists. That skews the results because we don't know how many "atheists" are really Pantheists.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

[walk in the woods]

As a member of a UCC church I can confirm that for the folks in Cleveland UCC does indeed stand for Unitarians Considering Christ....

[Stosh]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

The government can say all it wants to about separation of church and state. The US Constitution is founded on Christian principles, "Endowed by our Creator...." As a Christian country, it endorses an open tolerance to all faiths. All this means is the federal government cannot proselytize one religion over another and is open to all. However, the US Constitution says nothing about individual states establishing an endorsement. That went by the wayside many years ago with the continual reinterpretation of the original doctrine.

 

However, the Darwinian attack on Christianity continues and in spite of it being illegal, the US government has endorsed atheism as it's national religion. Unless it is endorsed by atheism, it is vehemently attacked by the small vocal minority backed by the government. Of course, due to the nature of Christians, it has become vogue to tolerate its own decline. This puts a smile on the faces of atheists all over the country, no matter how small a minority they may be.

 

Not many would admit the US has become a godless nation, but it doesn't need to admit the reality of what's happening. Like other atheistic countries that have come and gone over the decades, eventually the US will one day wake up that fact and all hell will break loose, just like it did in all those other countries. You want evidence of that? There's plenty to be had.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

The government can say all it wants to about separation of church and state.

 

Particularly the supreme court.

 

The US Constitution is founded on Christian principles, "Endowed by our Creator...."

 

That's not in the US constitution.

 

As a Christian country, it endorses an open tolerance to all faiths

 

We aren't a Christian country.

 

All this means is the federal government cannot proselytize one religion over another and is open to all.

 

It means a lot more than that.

 

However, the Darwinian attack on Christianity continues and in spite of it being illegal, the US government has endorsed atheism as it's national religion.

 

What color is the sky in your world?

[DigitalScout]

Stosh - would you mind sharing your education background (e.g., public, secular private, religious, homeschooling) and religious background (e.g., Baptist, Pentacostal)? I think it would help us understand where you are coming from. One tends to assume that we all have similar backgrounds, attended similar churches and learned in the traditional education system. I may be completely wrong but I'm assuming that you were taught in a non-mainstream education system.

[Horizon]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

What is "the Darwinian attack on Christianity"? Are you talking about the teaching of the theory of evolution here?

[Stosh]

Stosh - would you mind sharing your education background (e.g., public, secular private, religious, homeschooling) and religious background (e.g., Baptist, Pentacostal)? I think it would help us understand where you are coming from. One tends to assume that we all have similar backgrounds, attended similar churches and learned in the traditional education system. I may be completely wrong but I'm assuming that you were taught in a non-mainstream education system.

Stosh - would you mind sharing your education background (e.g., public, secular private, religious, homeschooling)

 

Public school through college (Computer Science, Business Admin, & Psychology). 4 years post graduate study in theology, Catholic/Presbyterian/Lutheran consortium. Semi-professional historian.

 

and religious background (e.g., Baptist, Pentacostal)?

 

Baptized: Evangelical Reformed

Grew up: Methodist

Confirmed: Lutheran

Current: No affiliation, attend worship regularly, but not necessarily at anyone church. Currently involved for various reasons in 3 different congregations in the community. Oops, because of my new troop formation I'm involved with, I'm involved with 4 congregations.

 

I think it would help us understand where you are coming from. One tends to assume that we all have similar backgrounds, attended similar churches and learned in the traditional education system. I may be completely wrong but I'm assuming that you were taught in a non-mainstream education system.

 

Nope, except for theological study, all in the Public Schools!

 

been there done that, seen a lot of different issues from a wide variety of different views, all of it Christian. My background in religion and history is where I am coming from in this discussion. In my basement I have at least 30' of floor to ceiling bookshelves of just about everything interesting.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

The government can say all it wants to about separation of church and state.

 

Particularly the supreme court.

 

-- as reinterpreted many times over the years.

 

The US Constitution is founded on Christian principles, "Endowed by our Creator...."

 

That's not in the US constitution.

 

-- My bad, Declaration of Independence, maybe we ought to drag out a copy of that, dust it off, and get it to Washington as a warning. We've come full circle and are right back where we started. There's a lot in that document that Washington wouldn't want to hear from its citizenry. King George wasn't impressed, I'm sure Obama wouldn't be either.

 

As a Christian country, it endorses an open tolerance to all faiths

 

We aren't a Christian country.

 

-- You are correct, we have become atheist, and they don't tolerate anything that doesn't go along with their anti-theology.

 

All this means is the federal government cannot proselytize one religion over another and is open to all.

 

It means a lot more than that.

 

-- without further elaboration, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

However, the Darwinian attack on Christianity continues and in spite of it being illegal, the US government has endorsed atheism as it's national religion.

 

What color is the sky in your world?

 

-- Blue, what's it in yours?

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

You are correct, we have become atheist, and they don't tolerate anything that doesn't go along with their anti-theology

 

Nope, we still have religious freedom. Got any specific examples of how the US is an atheist country?

 

without further elaboration, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I was pressed for time; here's a good, rather famous bit from Everson v. Bd. of Edu:

"The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.

 

That's quite a bit more than what you say it covers.

[Stosh]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

What is "the Darwinian attack on Christianity"? Are you talking about the teaching of the theory of evolution here?

 

Sorry, Horizon, I missed your one line comment.

 

Darwinianism is a modern interpretation of Pantheism, the worship of nature. Darwin was anti-Christian, used pseudo-scientific lingo to repackage it into his attack on Christianity. He was in fact an educated theologian, not a scientist. Evolution was a medium by which many further interpretations have arisen that are used for a various reasons, mostly to attack Christianity, it's main goal. Others have used it for even more destructive agendas.

 

Maybe Merlyn can fill us in on Neo-Darwinianism some time, a 200 year evolution of the Darwinian attack.

 

Stosh

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's a bit higher than that, as the poll also says "More Americans say they do not believe in God or a universal spirit (7%) than say they are atheists (2.4%)", so it's more like 7% and 93%, but I assume part of jblake47's definition of "impact" are things like the removal of ten commandment monuments from public school property, so you can't simply compare 7% vs. 93% as part of that 93% agree with the government being neutral on religion. The head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State has been a UCC minister for decades.

No, I can't, because that's your delusion. Evolution is science.