Alleged Utah Scout Leaders Topple Goblin Valley Rock Formations

[SR540Beaver]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

[dedkad]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

In our Council, the LDS units (at least for Cub Scouts because that's all I'm familiar with) are very well run and the leaders dedicated. Without their effort, we wouldn't have anyone running our day camp and our leader training sessions. Membership in Boy Scouts is required for LDS boys and the leaders are basically told that they have to be leaders, whether they want to or not. I believe I read it on here, maybe on the Snake River thread, but someone pointed out that because of this mandatory membership and leadership, you are going to run into problems with people who don't really want to be there and couldn't care less about the program and its principles. Just look at many of christineka's posts. She's a dedicated leader who is really trying to put her best into the program, but she keeps running up against boys who don't want to be there and upper management who doesn't want to help her.

[Stosh]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

I understand what you are trying to say and you and I will both be walking in dangerous territory.

 

However, I would like to add, that regardless of whether or not the idiots were part of any LDS troop, they are and always will be idiots. I don't think it's fair to stereotype the whole LDS into the mix, even if the troops was LDS. The point that needs to be made that due to the process of chartering by any CO, if they do not follow the BSA program and are properly trained in that program, problems like this are going to happen with the same catastrophic conclusions. Just because one degenerate leader in a Catholic troop abuses a boy, doesn't mean all Catholic troops are to be drawn in under the microscope.

 

If it's a Catholic troop and didn't follow YPT protocols and enforce them, then that particular troop CO can be held accountable. Same for any other troop regardless of the origin of the CO.

 

However, a single incident doesn't run any red flags for me, but if over time, more and of this kind of thing came to light, AND a single CO type of organization was a common denominator, then the BSA might want to step in and review the relationship with that organization.

 

Until then, it's an isolated incident involving 2 idiots, and that's as far as I would want to take it.

 

I, too, apologize if my comments may have offended anyone. (except the two idiots, then if I stepped on their toes, I hope it hurt.)

 

Stosh

[Scouter99]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

Admittedly, my first thoughts were "Again?" http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/03/07/utah-boy-scouts-agree-330000-settlement-for-2002-wildfire/

[King Ding Dong]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

"There were two 15-year-old counselors but no adults present at the campsite." Not exactly a ringing endorsement for 300'

[perdidochas]

LNT ...bit of Irony...look to the Summitt...What kind of Trace did we Leave there..All those Natural BMX Bike Trails, The Natural Skateboard Parks..The Treehouse...The Zip Lines

The Summit is a sacrificial site, per LNT. Sometimes you have to mar nature for human use.

[Stosh]

LNT ...bit of Irony...look to the Summitt...What kind of Trace did we Leave there..All those Natural BMX Bike Trails, The Natural Skateboard Parks..The Treehouse...The Zip Lines

Sounds more like a lame excuse rather than a reason.....

 

Stosh

[walk in the woods]

LNT ...bit of Irony...look to the Summitt...What kind of Trace did we Leave there..All those Natural BMX Bike Trails, The Natural Skateboard Parks..The Treehouse...The Zip Lines

Wasn't the Summit a coal mine prior to being a Scout camp?

[Jeffrey H]

Viewing the video, I would say they were having quite a "joy ride." Safety for the kids? Yea, right. Two lessons here: 1) Don't break the law and respect nature. 2) If you can't follow #1, remember that everyone has a video camera on their cell phones and they can feed it to social media pretty quick.

[King Ding Dong]

I realize this is a unique geologic feature, however I find it ironic that society has deemed perfectly fine to blow up entire mountains.

Art is one thing. Blowing up an entire mountain and removing it from existence permanently is another.

[frankpalazzi]

And one of the culprit's character is turning out to be even more deplorable. He's apparently strong enough to hike around and topple a large rock, but is still suing someone for his "disability" caused in an auto accident. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/10/man-who-toppled-ancient-rock-suing-for-disability/

 

This man needs to be kicked out of the BSA.

They couldn't have removed two boulder guys! Maybe they were stoned! Did they think they could rock our world and take it for granite?

[dedkad]

And one of the culprit's character is turning out to be even more deplorable. He's apparently strong enough to hike around and topple a large rock, but is still suing someone for his "disability" caused in an auto accident. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/10/man-who-toppled-ancient-rock-suing-for-disability/

 

This man needs to be kicked out of the BSA.

Frank, I think they are goblin' up the publicity.

[qwazse]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

I know a lot of leaders who would leave a site without a cold-out test. In fact that was a serious problem that I was having with my scouts. It's been building over a year. In spite of our best efforts, they have been nurturing an attitude that they can light a fire anywhere without owning up to making sure it is 100% extinguished.

What's worse, is they think they know what "good enough" is.

[packsaddle]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

Speaking of which, does it pass the regulations if the boys are 'creative' with the way they put it out?

[King Ding Dong]

At the risk of angering some here who may be LDS, it has been my personal observation that many of the stories we hear regarding deaths, injuries and just dumb antics come from LDS troops. Not all, but many. I'm not anti-LDS. I don't know what it is like in Utah where the vast majority of scouts are LDS, but where I'm from, the LDS troops participate in nothing......including training. Most LDS leaders don't register because they want to, but because they are directed to. They use the Boy Scout program, but they don't necessarily follow the Boy Scout program. I believe that if they would participate in the available training and network with units and leaders outside of LDS, they would be the better for it. Just my .02 cents. I apologize if that is offensive to anyone.

Only if they are willing to use their "creativity tools" for a cold-out test.